8th Edition Space Wolves Tactics

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ado409
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Re: 8th Edition Space Wolves Tactics

Post by ado409 » Wed Oct 25, 2017 7:28 pm

Morning all,

Ive had a few people tell me that Bjorn the Fell-Handed is amazing. And I just keep thinking, how? He IS a character with 8 wounds, so he cant be target unless he is the closest model and he gives a few buffs and an extra command point. Lets hit the analysis:

Bjorn the Fell Handed:

Pros:
  • Just for having him in your army you gains 1 command point
  • Rerolls of 1 to hit for all Space Wolves units within 6".
  • WS and BS of 2+,
  • Heavy flamer. Good for overwatch and auto hits on stuff
  • He has a 5+ Feel no pain sort of ability where on ANY wound taken, on a 5+ he ignores it
  • He comes stock with his trueclaw, which is S+5 (so plus his base of 7, is S12) Hitting on 2's rerolling 1's, and wounding basically most tanks on 3's, and anything toughness 6 (eldar and necron tanks and all infantry) on 2's, rerolling due to rerolls from the weapon. Making him basically hit and wound with all attacks with rerolls. WOAH! Then its at AP-4 which denies a LOT of things their normal saves unless there is invulns around. and to top all that off, its D6 damage...... Also if you make him your warlord, give him the +1 attack warlord trait for 6 attacks.
Cons:
  • He is worth a LOT of points, for around 250 points you get a hellfrost cannon (1 shot S8 Ap-4 D6 damage with Hellfrost rule or D3 shots S6 -2, 2 damage) This only gets more expencive to take dual lascannons
  • He can only move 8".
  • Smoke launchers. Usefull perhaps? Not sure, so its in this end of the list
  • Doesnt have an invuln save. This kinda makes him a bit of a glasshammer if he gets hit with the right stuff.
  • You will need to bubble wrap him if you plan on walking him up the board.
Weapons Analysis:
Note: All tests will be done with a 3+ save average with no invuln
Close Combat:
  • Running these stats through FOB Mathhammer page. Trueclaw For having him as the warlord for 6 attacks, He will do 20 wounds against anything T6 or lower witha 3+ save and no invuln. On on singular wound models, he will kill 6 models everytime. In other words he can solo, 5 man units of basically anything. And then be able to smash 18 wounds into T7 tanks. So he IS better off charging tanks, but he can easily kill infantry too.
Shooting:
  • The cheapest weapon is the assault cannon, Heavy 6 S6, AP-1 and 1 damage. He will get a -1 to hit if he moves, so he will hit on 3's rerolling ones, and wounding T5 and lower on 3's (2 wounds average), T6 on 4's (1 wound average) and T7 or higher on 5's(1 wound average).
  • Next up is the heavy plasma cannon with two profiles. He will get a -1 to hit if he moves, so he will hit on 3's rerolling ones. The standard profile is Heavy D3, S7, Ap-3 and 1 damage (average 1 wound on T6 or lower, less than 1 wound on T7, and less than 1 wound on T8 and higher). And the supercharged version is Heavy D3, S8, AP-3 for 2 damage (average 2 wounds on T7 or lower, 1 wound on T8, and 1 wound on T9 and higher). For hit rolls of 1 he will take a mortal wound on this.
  • Next up is the Hellfrost cannon with two profiles. He will get a -1 to hit if he moves, so he will hit on 3's rerolling ones. The first profile is 1 shot S8, AP-4, D6 damage (average 2 wounds on T7 or lower, 2 wounds on T8, and 1 wounds on T9 and higher), and the second profile is D3 shots, S6, AP-2, 1 damage (average 1 wounds on T5 or lower, 0.5 wounds on T6, and 0 wounds on T7 and higher). Of course with the helfrost rule. (on models who take wounds but dont die, on a 6+ they take a mortal wound.
  • Finally is the dual lascannon. He will get a -1 to hit if he moves, so he will hit on 3's rerolling ones. They are S9. AP-3 and D6 Damage. (average 3 wounds on T8 or lower, 2 wounds on T9, and 1.5 wounds on T10 and higher).
Conclusion
Bjorn is an absolute beast in close combat, with minimum 18 wouunds on tanks and then 6 on infantry with single wounds. His command point will help out. No invuln save is a bit of a detrement to him, but the 5+ save may help here. Him also being a character may help him screen off some shooting away from himself. I would reccomend to take either the helfrost cannon or the dual lascannons as they have the most damage output(the helfrost cannon being half theprice for one less wound would propably be a fair offset.) He will basiclaly be able to hit and wound anything with all shots or attacks with the bigger guns and his close combat weapons. Strategiclly you would either need a forgeworld droppod to get him quickly where you need, and maybe have some wulfen get in the give the rerolls to charge. otherwise its a slow slog up the board for him. Walking him up the baord, you would have to have a good shield of cheap models to take the wounds from him. such as fenrisian wolves or barebones scouts. Taking other drednaughts with him may also go okay especially the ones with Blizzard shields for a 3+ invuln save. Brutal. I beleive that Bjorn will be a great asset to any army, but you need to ensure you arent going to get absolutely annihilated by enemy firepower after you get to charge.
The wolves among us, bring strength to the pack leader. Relish this.

Aclys
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Re: 8th Edition Space Wolves Tactics

Post by Aclys » Fri Oct 27, 2017 1:18 pm

As an alternative to stuffing bjorn in a resin box, tasty as that option is, it risks leaving bjorn without anything friendly nearby for plot-armor. Instead, why not pair him with a venerable dread with blizzardshield? It is a dread with a 3++ and a 6+FNP, its primary purpose is to be an ungodly meat(in a metal shell)shield and with this setup you may just tempt the enemy into spending his firepower on it. If he does not? His army gets treated to a front row seat to the "bjorn and borg kill everything they touch" show.

But wait there is more, add a sprinkle of murderlusty murderdread and you have three very durable boxes of death on legs where the most unkillable of the three is the only one most of the enemy can shoot at, just watch out for smite-spam or other applicators of mortal wounds.

Obviously this is an expensive unit pairing/trio/quartette, but consider the price of the droppod in points and money and then consider drinking the sweet tears of your opponent as he faces the majestic murder march of the alliterating angry ancients

ado409
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Re: 8th Edition Space Wolves Tactics

Post by ado409 » Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:00 am

Hey guys im back.

After on of you nabbed me on instagram I feel that I need to update you all on some more tactics that I have found. Moreso regarding Bjorn and how to take him.

In my current list I am taking Bjorn with an assault cannon. I got rid of the helfrost cannon as it was not helping me kill anything at all as it would miss a lot or not wound. Now, bjorn can assault cannon and flamer some weaker nmies (potentially wipe a 5 man unit of infantry) and then he can charge something else.

Im also taking two veneable dreadnaughts with the shield and axe. I tried one of these and muderfang, but since murderfang has no invuln save, he is basically easy yo kill and as a meat shield for bjorn, another venerable dreadnaught is better. Even though they move 6" then can just advance and getthat turn 2 charge off. I also try to keep a wolf guard battle leader on bike o be close to these dreanaughts for the rerolls of 1's to wound. Mostly the three of these dreadnaughts will mostly do 15 or more wounds every fight phase. As aclys stated before having these guys with 3++ and a 6+FNP so will basically save most things. And if they arent killed before they reach the enemy, they will tear through everything.

Ive also been taking a repulsor tank. Mainly so the opponent sees a big tank and targets it straight away, giving you time to charge up your dreadnaughts. If they decide to shoot at the dreadnaughts they will dissapointed, as you will be able to save most of these wounds.

Comparing this to the time i chose to take 6 thundercav. They got minced. So dont even bother with them.
The wolves among us, bring strength to the pack leader. Relish this.

ado409
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Re: 8th Edition Space Wolves Tactics

Post by ado409 » Thu Feb 22, 2018 10:19 pm

Hi guys, me again. Just thought i'd give an update on my latest list that ive been running.

I took this list to the recent Cancon ITC Championship Tournament in Canberra, Australia in January and came 79th (highest ranking for a space wolves player out of 4 in the tournament, and also came 2nd overall for space wolves in australia for last years ITC season). So in this post, ill go through what i brought, why i brought each unit and how they performed then a conclusion of what i would change for next time.

The list:
Overview: This list is based around the three main dreadnaughts being two vernerables and bjorn. Then filling out the rest of the points to be able to help push for other things that the dreadies could handle well. The list was built in accordance to the new ITC mission pack to give away the least amount of easy 2ndary points for every game. AKA, no more than 9 models in large units, less 10+ wound tanks, less units with 3 or 4 wounds each etc. As you will see below. I was able to fit in each of the +1 detatchements in this list (vanguard, spearhead and outrider) for 3 command points, plus 3 for being battle-forged, plus another 1 for bjorn being in the list for a total of 7CP. The list also tries to encorporate enough firepower/combat to take on all comers and some speed to go for recon and get some quick charges and board control.

Vanguard Detachment
HQ
Bjorn the fell handed w/ assault cannon and trueclaw: after doing my research seen in this thread above, bjorn has been amazing for me. I have decided to take the assault cannon now rather than the hellfrost cannon as i seemed to do no damage with that gun. Now taking the assault cannon, in decent range youl be able to get 6 shots rerolling 1's hitting on 3's (heavy weapon) and then wound/kill a decent amount of infantry with it. This plus the flamer can do some serious hurt to a few enemy units. Multiple times during the tournament i would be able to shoot, flame, and charge multiple units potentially wiping 2/3 units a turn with these guns. They are really handy to have if you need to get rid of a few guys remaining from a unit younearly killed previously. Also, Bjor WRECKS in combat. Will basically hit and wound with all dice with his rerolls (and taking +1 attack warlord trait) I got minimum 15 wounds every combat with him. Absolute legend.

Elites
Venerable Dreadnaught with shield and axe. Bjorn's first meatshield. Yes they may be slow, but i dont feel abd advancing these guys for the first two turns soaking up damage and then mincing everything they touch. Being near bjorn really helps add value to their attack potential for reolls's 1 to hit. The 3++ is amazing, plus if you do fail one, you then get the 6+ venerable save. So lets math hammer this. Youve been shot at by lascannons. Unit will shoot 4 of them at you hitting on 3's. missing 1/2. Then they need 3's again, which again, will miss 1/2. So you get 2x 3++ to save them. and say you fail one. They get D6 damage, and they roll a 3. You should be able to save atleast one of these. so you only lose 2 wounds. This guy has 8 wounds, let alone another whole dreadnaught next to him. Yep. Its dumb tough hey. But compare this to a unit of 6 thundercav. They would fail so many wounds, and being a lower toughness and less saves/attacks really hurts them. These dreads are better. I saved a dumb amount on saves with these guys in the tournament and at one stage killing tanks in one blow. again, about the same minimum wounds as bjorn.

Venerable Dreadnaught with shield and axe.: See above.

Primaris Ancient: This guy was intented to be used to sit in the bubble field of missiles and hellblasters to get some more shots off when my duders got targeted as I got wrecked by this in a few other games in previous tournaments. But when this only happens on a 4+ you may only get 4 missile shots and 2 hellblaster shots, probably missing a lot of them also. This unit did not work as well as I would have liked, and will be swapped out in the next list.

Transport
Repulsor tank with all the guns (not going to list them, but the tanks got all the guns minus lastalons and minus any anti air guns). As the only other anti infantry I have is the S4 missiles from the longfangs, i needed something that would wipe duders in the droves. One list i played was an ork boy list with 180 models. I killed 164 of them and just lost on points. It was this guy that did the most damage. I also needed a big unit size wise that your opponent goes, oh damn i need to kill that as its a big threat. rather than getting rid of the dreadnaughts. It did die in basically all games. But did everything it needed too. Having bjorn around or the bike characters for some rerolls can make this tank put out something like 60 shots rerolling 1;s to hit and wound. which is OP. This tank can also transport the hellblasters if you feel the need.

Spearhead Detachment
HQ
Wolf Guard Battle Leader w/ Storm Shield and Power Fist: Legit sit this guy in the bubble of heavy weapons with the ancient and give rerolls of 1 to wound to them all. helps heaps. Also if you get outflanked or deepstruk against, its just another powerful character the enemy has to deal with.

Heavy Support
Hellblasters w/heavy plasma cannons. Keeping these guys in the bubble or in a line as a meat shield if I needed to turtle was great. two wounds is perfect and a pain for your opponent. Then overcharging these guns with some rerolls from the bikes or bjorn to reroll ones allowed their S 8 -4AP D2 shots to mostly hit at all times and then one shot 10 wound guard or eldar tanks. pretty narly.

Long fangs w missile launchers, + 1 wolf guard pack leader w/storm shield. Flat reoll ones to hit is awesome. Good against tanks AND infantry with the two weapons profiles. came in handy against the 180 model ork list. Also your probably thinking, what? a storm shield in this unit? oh yes sir. for 5 points and an extra model, you get a 3+ invuln. So you take all the saves on this guy first before you lose your leader, then your missiles. The amount of 3+ invuln saves I made on this guy was stupid good. Saves the unit multiple times over.

Long fangs w missile launchers, + 1 wolf guard pack leader w/storm shield: See above.

Outrider Detachment
HQ
Wolf Lord on bike with Thunderhammer: This guy is for speed and to give some rerolls. He also can smash through guys in close combat. Pretty awesome. Used this guy around the for 100% cover until i was close enough to get a good 14" move in and smash some stuff. Or advance and get where I needed to go.

Wolf Guard Battle Leader on bike with Thunderhammer and Storm Shield: See Wolf Lord on bike above^

Fast Attack
Attack Bike w/ heavy bolter: This guys funny, i just love the model, but too see peoples faces when i tell them that i HAVE to charge. or that he has 4 wounds is just funny. Mainly used for recon, but the extra gun power can help kill more infantry which is always welcome.

Swiftclaws x 3 w /Chainswords: just to fill slots and some more outflanking guys to use bolter shots and wrap some guys in combat. Were okay, wouldnt really take them again, would rather a second attack bike.

Cyber Wolf: 4+ save, goes to a 3+ in cover. 2 wounds (lol, people rage so hard at that). They soak up some fire power if you need them to, but mostly fast. For this detatchment and list they were put in for points reasons as theyre so cheap to fill out the detatchment. I used to lovet hese guys for old ITC missions where you could place the objectives in your deployment zone. but nowadays depending on random deployment and mission type, they may not help much and can just give your opponent free kills. Objectives can still come into your zone though, and theyre just easy to deploy and let them sit there and you can forget about them while they hold an objective for you rather than wasting bigger units that are more expencive to do that job. Also, you can hide them behind buildings or in buildings, and i assure you 9 times/10 if your opponent cant see it, they will forget its even there (helps for denying they shooting at characters etc)

Cyber Wolf: See above

Conclusion
So this list was pretty awesome. Wrecked lots of armies. I came away with three wins, a draw and four losses.

I would deffinantly change out a few units. First off is the swiftclaws. They just died really easiy and for the points I would rather have another attack bike.
Secondly, the cyber wolves, too many times they sat around to deny some deepstriking, but i think only one is necessary for objectives. So i would drop one of the two here.
Thirdly, I would drop out the primaris ancient. He isnt worth his points cost for what he gave me in the game. He can atatck fine if the WGBL needs help but that isnt often.

I would put in another attack bike, an ironpriest on bike, to heal up my dreadnaughts/repulsor to make them more survivable and then he can go smash stuff with the other character bikes, and then to keep the detatchments structure, i would throw in some outflanking scouts with combat weapons. Good to go attack some guard mortar squads or going for outflank. WIll test this out and let you all know.

If you have any ideas or things that habe worked for your wolves army, let me know. ill be sure to try them out and let you know how i fare with them. Thanks!
The wolves among us, bring strength to the pack leader. Relish this.

ado409
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Re: 8th Edition Space Wolves Tactics

Post by ado409 » Sun Mar 04, 2018 10:03 pm

If anyone has any list ideas or cool combos they have found, please share them and I will happily try them out in a list and put it up for discussion!
The wolves among us, bring strength to the pack leader. Relish this.

DougieC
First post! Good job, now post more...
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Re: 8th Edition Space Wolves Tactics

Post by DougieC » Thu Mar 29, 2018 10:55 am

Hi guys. I've found this thread quite useful in my planning of a SW force and a return to 40k.

I've now finalised my 2k list and thought I'd share it for your critique! Hopefully will be bringing this to the table soon to test out. :D

Battalion detachment:

HQ

WGBL
Warlord with inspiring leader, krakenbone sword, plasma pistol

Wolflord on bike
Relic blade, master crafted boltgun

TROOP 1
7 Bloodclaws.
1x plasma gun
1x plasma pistol
1x BC pack leader power axe
1x WG pack leader plasma pistol/storm shield

TROOP 2
7 Bloodclaws.
1x plasma gun
1x plasma pistol
1x BC pack leader power sword
1x WG pack leader plasma pistol/storm shield

TROOP 3
6 Grey Hunters
1x plasma gun
1x plasma pistol
1x GH pack leader power axe
1x WG pack leader combi melta/storm shield

FLYER
Stormwolf (hellfrost/las/bolters)

852pts

Vanguard detachment:

HQ
Bjorn
Njal

ELITES
Lukas
Venerable (axe/blizzard)
Wulfen x6. 5 with TH/SS, leader dual claws, 1x stormfrag

HEAVY SUPPORT
Predator, auto cannon/dual las/hunter missile

1152pts


2000pts total. 5 CP.

I really wanted to get a crusader in here but it's just too expensive. I also initially had a spearhead detachment using 3x cyberwolves but scrapped it to get the 6th wulfen.

Tactics:

BC units will drop in with WGBL and Lukas. WGBL having leadership warlord trait should help boost any morale tests negating Lukas-1 within 3inch. I didn't see the wolf priest adding much to the party over the WGBL. Figured splitting the BC into two packs would also boost the plasma capability. They're now setup for a boat load of attacks after charge (assuming both units make it) but also have some decent plasma capability to worry more than grunts.

Njal I'll walk behind Bjorn and venerable. If he can pull of the cover modifier in the psychic phase it'll help them stay alive as they advance up the table. His 18" range for jaws and wrath should also help. He's a slow mover in termi armour so walking with the dreads should be fine.

Wolflord is to run behind the wulfen. He's pretty epic and being able keep up and stay 6inch away from the wulfen should net him and extra attack once the wulfen are in CC. That group should be capable of dealing some serious damage to elites/heavys.

Predator for heavy support. Would have liked a bit more than this but points wouldn't allow it. I'll just need to be careful to protect it and possibly keep njal in reserve for deepstrike. Need to see how it plays out.

Grey Hunters I hope to hold close to the pred. They'll hold objective on my side of the table and hopefully with they're load out can defend themselves. I can always pull back the wolflord to assist if needed. That moment allowance on bike is pretty epic. Tempted to shave a few points elsewhere and get a razorback to support them.

Really looking forward to getting this to the table and having some fun with it.

So, thoughts?

ado409
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Re: 8th Edition Space Wolves Tactics

Post by ado409 » Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:47 pm

Hey DougieC,

Im so glad that this thread has brought upon your comeback into the game. Thats great to hear!

I play tournaments in the ITC format here in Australia, so my lists are skewed for that gameplay type. The secondary objectes gives the opp points if they acheive certain things in the game, so its easy to deny them max point if you take less of the units below:
3 or more wound units in big lots
10+ man units
Vehicles with 10+ wounds.
Characters.

As per your list,
I havent taken troops in terms of blood claws or grey hunters for a good year in the tournament scene. When i did, i took three razorbacks with 5 grey hunters in each to throw out mass shots and hold objectives. Then razorbacks went up in points and now arent worth taking.

Blood claws do get a lot of attacks which is good for killing infantry, but i find that base S 4 wont be enough to be a force to be reaconed with and with only 14 wounds there with 2 3++ from the shields, one round of assault cannons or heavy bolters will wipe the squad.

Bjorn is the best, keep him safe with that other dreaddy. Nice choice.

The flyers are good, they just seem to get shot down easily as people see a plane and go oh wow gotta delete that straight away.

Wulfen on foot will get minced, guarenteed.

njal is a tad wasted IMO. Maybe not for bjorn as he has no invuln, but for your shield dreddy, most people in my experience only throw -2/-3AP weapons at them so the storm power isnt worth it here. Maybe for the wulfen? but then njal is a bit slow to keep up. The SW phsycic phase atm is the worst. Hopefully we get new powers when our codex comes out.

I would rather take long fangs over the predator. With missiles, you may loose some strngth and AP but you then also have the option to use frag missiles against hordes. And they reroll ones and can easily sit on an objective for you up your end of the board. They are also cheaper than a predator. I suggest using a wolf guard pack leader in the pack with a storm shield. Save lots of -AP weapons with this guy, and then you have two fodder models before you start loosing you 40 point missile models.

Have you played a game with this list?? Id love to know how it went. Im going to build a new list from scratch for the next tournament i go to. Only went 26/36 with my dreadnaughts and repulsor characters on bikes and long fangs.
The wolves among us, bring strength to the pack leader. Relish this.

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