8th Edition Space Wolves Tactics

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ado409
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Re: 8th Edition Wulfen Tactics

Post by ado409 » Thu Aug 31, 2017 5:31 am

Update the list above. Hopefully is a lot more readable.

My only problem with giving flavor to my greyhunter squads is that they can only take melta, flamers and plasma.

Flamers are short range, plasma there is a good chance of loosing a guy and the meltagun is better for close up damage.

I've been using the grey hunters to get some lucky wounds off big things and bubble wrap my tanks if need be. Id rather loose my grey hunters than loose my razorbacks.

I did actually take Ulrik in the list, his ability is very circumstantial (when he himself kills an enemy character, everyone within 6" gets rerolls to wound or something?). Much better off taking the wolf Priest. BUT like I said previously, the Wulfen wreck face as it is. no need for rerolls. So long story short, i need a hq and i have about 140 points. Any ideas? Also, I want to try taking some blood claws in the other flyer (making it a stormwolf ofcourse) BUT i dont like the idea of having way too many eggs in one basket, and as my wulfen are a huge glass hammer, im sure the grey hunters will have the same fate.
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Re: 8th Edition Wulfen Tactics

Post by mmsolo » Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:25 am

They can take close combat stuff too that is some flavor with they chainsword they are as good as assault marine in close combat. But still having some bolters.

You have a naked wolf lord, he can prevent at least a unit with plasma to reroll some 1s and not loose a guy. ( by the way you should at least give him a power sword ^^ with that equipement you sure the loose a propper fight against someone targeting him. )

As you said Ulrik ... prefer wolf priest, but your grey hunters are not close combat oriented so you should take a wolf guard battle leader to have rerolling 1s to wound at least if you're more shooty. Or a rune priest to have some spells maybe. An iron priest for your predators can be nice too. ( but for wolf lord and wolf guard battle leader, give them at least a power sword if you don't want to pay point for them. They are still important character and possibly warlords , so they need to be able to protect themselves on close quarter. The wolf guard battle leader being cheaper but not having invulnerable you can also give him a storm shield )

Thoses 3 options still oriented aura/abillities more than combat are cheaper than Ulrik.

With thoses extra point you can give at least a power weapon to leaders in the grey hunter units to make them usefull when you face not good close combat armies at all or in the opposite make them usefull when a big close combat thing come for you. Power sword are just 4 points a piece.

As an opponent if i see that armie i know that your wulfens will be in my face, but the rest of the list will be quite weak in close quarter and if i'm as fast as you are or more , i just have to charge grey hunter/predators to kill them easiely or just shut them down a turn.

You sure have a good charging thing ( wulfen ) but the opponent can be stronger in the charge or faster than you and go where you can't win in melee. So if you want to go for a shooty list ( + wulfen ) at least have so good close combat character, that way if he come close enough, the wolf lord here for giving some auras will be able to face his units a defend your shooting line. Leaders in the grey hunter units can do a bit of the same.

So to sumarize I can suggest you to take a Wolf guard battle leader/rune priest/iron priest. And with the extra points give at least a cheap power sword to the wolf lord ( if you take one, to the wolf guard battle leader too , and maybe a storm shield ) . If you still have 12 pts extra, go for a power sword in each grey hunters units.

Also flamers are short range but if you use grey hunters to protect the gun line it is a nice weapon to prevent charges.

Hope thoses ideas can be interessting for you.

About blood claws i like them but they are not always worth it if you don't give them the proper auras ( Lukas and a wolf priest are the best ) so if you don't creat a list around them, they can not realy worth it. But it can be a cheap unit to have something else than wulfen to chage with. Replacing one of the 3 grey hunters unit and their transport. No shooting weapon , power swords on a wolf guard pack leader and the blood claw pack leader, and you have something usefull when charging ( using also rerollong the charge from the wulfens ) .

I wont spend more points on them without At least Lukas. ( with him i go for plasma pistols and thunder hammers/power fist to benefit from his +1 to hit rolls )

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Re: 8th Edition Wulfen Tactics

Post by ado409 » Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:29 am

I do really like that the grey hunters can now have chainswords too. Problem is, since i have prebuilt my hunters with both hands on the bolters, i would need to get an abundance of chainswords and glue them on their holster to show that they have chainswords too. Your right, if its free, why wouldnt you always take them like that. As for taking a power weapon in each, im not to sure thats what i need. Mostly i need them to stay back and hold objectives, not charge forward and be killed. Still tossing up whetehr a flamer would be worth it. Auto hits are fun.

Sorry, I missed the frost sword on my wolf lord in the list! He definantly isnt bare bones!

I dont see the value in having a wolf guard battle leader just for grey hunters. For the same amount of points, you could have an entire 5 man unit. more dice is better than rerolls of less dice.

I have taken for a few tournaments two iron priests to repair the predators. in 15 games they probably only restored wounds in 2/3 games. And i found it was a waste of points, where i could have had a decent HQ giving some good buffs or to help out in CC.

The wolf priest would only help for combat. AKA wulfen in this army, however since as i said, without the rerolls to hit buff, they still managed to murdernate everything, i think its overkill. Whatever you charge with that unit will die.

I have thought about a rune priest or Njal, and taking the power that gives +1 to cover saves, this in the long run might let wulfen stay a tad more alive. but thats what the shields are for right? Some blasting off from mortal wounds can be devestating at the very least and at least yo know you have some decent damage just from one guy.

What type of other character would be good? perhaps arjac to deepstrike in or ride in the flyer with the wulfen and be dropped of and go take out a bunch of stuff? He gets to shoot the hammer too which is baller. ragnar could be baller with his wolves as well. Really beefy. Same goes for Logan but he is very expencive.
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Re: 8th Edition Wulfen Tactics

Post by mmsolo » Wed Sep 06, 2017 6:58 am

About staying back for objectif, just remember than you can face close combat oriented armies or unit that will come for thoses objectives. So charge you even if you don't . Same result they are going to be killed without being able to defend themselves a bit.

I didn't know that you wanted a other HQ to chage with the wulfen in particular. My idea with a wolf guard battle leader is his aura, to not have and other rerolling 1s to hit, cumulate the two of thoses for razorback/grey hunter/predator and still able to manage himself if something charges your line.

If you look at the aura being given by characters , i don't recommand Logan. His aura rerolling hits will have the same problem as a wolf priest, you don't realy need it. And the other one give wolf guards immune to moral but you don't have any.

Arjac is a beast in close and in range of his hammer, i realy like his punch, he also have a rerolling 1s to wound. So it can still be usefull but you already have some high ST weapon on your wulfens. So to me about a wolf guard battle leader that was to help your shooting line more than wulfen.

So because you pay for thoses things you don't realy need, i don't know. A rune priest seems to be a nice defencive character as you said.
To lead a charge maybe Krom dragongaze, i have never consider him but he is one of the only having a aura usefull for your wulfens ( -1 moral around him ) , Close to ragnar but ragnar has rerolling charges, what wulfen already have for free.

Depend where you want them to be. With the gun line, giving something to your pred, with the grey hunters/razorbck or with the wulfens.

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Re: 8th Edition Wulfen Tactics

Post by Koonitz » Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:47 am

ado409 wrote:
Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:29 am
I do really like that the grey hunters can now have chainswords too. Problem is, since i have prebuilt my hunters with both hands on the bolters, i would need to get an abundance of chainswords and glue them on their holster to show that they have chainswords too. Your right, if its free, why wouldnt you always take them like that.
In 7th, it used to be 1 point to take the extra chainsword, but you are right. Now, there is no reason not to take the extra weapon. In almost all cases, no one will really care if your model is missing something like a chainsword. I doubt even most local tournaments would bother with something like that due to the nature of the Grey Hunters. After all, it's difficult to model 3 weapons on a two armed model, especially when GW doesn't offer any holstered options for most (pistols, but that's it).

Until you look at the Heresy Mk III and Mk IV kits. They are available separately, or come in the Burning of Prospero and Betrayal at Calth box sets respectively. You can see in the pictures (especially the 360 shots) that the kits offer a holstered combat weapon that can be strapped to the belt along the back. The Mk III are even chain swords, which would fit perfectly with Grey Hunters. You likely wouldn't have to do much, if any, breaking of your existing models to fit the chainswords on.

I would ask around your local group to see if anyone has any Mk III kits where they aren't using the holstered chain swords (the kit comes with 1 holstered chainsword for every model, so 10 in each 10-man box or 30 in the Prospero box). You could probably use the combat blades on the Mk IV Marines, and I doubt many, if any, would mind, but the Mk III chain swords would be preferred.
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Re: 8th Edition Wulfen Tactics

Post by mmsolo » Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:00 am

Using all the knives from the space wolves sets. Considering that scouts has combat knives and it is the same stats as a chainsword. Could it be ok and wolfy ?

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Re: 8th Edition Wulfen Tactics

Post by Koonitz » Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:05 am

mmsolo wrote:
Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:00 am
Using all the knives from the space wolves sets. Considering that scouts has combat knives and it is the same stats as a chainsword. Could it be ok and wolfy ?
They no longer have the same staline. Combat blades are just "basic melee weapons", effective. Chain swords are "basic melee weapons with +1 attack". I doubt anyone would mind in general, though.
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Re: 8th Edition Wulfen Tactics

Post by mmsolo » Wed Sep 06, 2017 4:44 pm

I'm sorry but my scout data tell me that wombat knife give also +1 attack and i never seen it in a FAQ ( Wolf scouts ). Am i wrong ? are the regular scouts not having the same weapons ?

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Re: 8th Edition Wulfen Tactics

Post by Koonitz » Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:15 pm

mmsolo wrote:
Wed Sep 06, 2017 4:44 pm
I'm sorry but my scout data tell me that wombat knife give also +1 attack and i never seen it in a FAQ ( Wolf scouts ). Am i wrong ? are the regular scouts not having the same weapons ?
Seems Scouts and Wolf Scouts have a special type of combat knife that does have an extra attack. However, as far as I can tell, this is limited to scouts only. All others are assumed to have whatever they are armed with, or the basic rulebook "close combat weapon" (commonly modeled as a combat knife for Marines).

So, I don't really see it being a problem, but some people might get confused since it seems to be a scout only option, in general. Just be aware.
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Re: 8th Edition Wulfen Tactics

Post by mmsolo » Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:32 pm

Thank to point that out. So to me, using the space marine arsenal ( with this profil ) having a knife on your belt can be a good choice to represent that extra attack.

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Re: 8th Edition Wulfen Tactics

Post by Koonitz » Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:51 pm

First, what I'm about to talk about is 100% and completely personal opinion. What you wish to do with your models and how you wish to represent them is up to you and what your local gaming group is okay with. With that being said.....
mmsolo wrote:
Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:32 pm
Thank to point that out. So to me, using the space marine arsenal ( with this profil ) having a knife on your belt can be a good choice to represent that extra attack.
I would not go so far as to say the basic combat knives that come with the Tactical Marine kit would count, to be honest. Here is a picture with some side-by-sides:
[+] Expand
Image
On the left, the Betrayal at Calth sheathed combat knife. in the middle, two basic Marine combat knives (belt bitz, basically) and a sheathed blood angel dagger. On the right, a Scout hand holding a combat knife. Note I specifically called most of those bitz the same thing to show how easy it can be for people to be confused.

The combat knife that grants +1 attack is a scout weapon. As far as I can tell, only scouts are equipped with it. This is likely because they CLEARLY have a much larger blade than the basic Marine combat knife and the +1 attack is to represent that it is a larger and more effective combat weapon (sort of like comparing a hunting knife to a machete or short sword). In addition, if this weapon didn't exist, close combat scouts with pistol/ccw would have gotten a bit of a nerf compared to their chain sword wielding brothers. The combat knives given to Tactical Marines is meant to basically just represent their basic melee weapon that all models are armed with by default per the rulebook.

Strictly arguing devil's advocate, I would not say the Tactical Marine combat knife is good enough to represent a +1 attack combat knife. Partially because of its size, partially because there are going to be a whole lot of random Space Marine players with Marines modeled with these combat knives, and if you start going around saying it's enough to count for the +1 attack, it's going to confuse a few people, especially new players.

The Calth blade, on the other hand, is large enough to absolutely represent a combat knife on par with the Scout combat knife and I'd be perfectly fine with someone using it as a stand in for a chain sword on Grey Hunters, or other models with a chain sword equivalent (or even putting them on Scouts for some variations in modeling). It also stands out on a model enough for me to say "that's a piece of wargear worth noting".
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Re: 8th Edition Wulfen Tactics

Post by ado409 » Thu Sep 07, 2017 12:01 am

I beleive we pay for the chainswords theoretically in the base unit cost as they are 5 points more than blood claws. Would make sence.
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Re: 8th Edition Wulfen Tactics

Post by mmsolo » Thu Sep 07, 2017 7:45 am

Yeah maybe the knife is too easy.

But yes you pay 14 pts for a grey hunter, and that extra point is for the free chainsword. ( I don't get why they don't just equiped then by default with it. )

So anyways i don't have any good answer to how represent this extra attack. If you don't have a friend with thoses boxes with chainswords on the belt, bitz just for that can be expensive.

By the way that's why i always use super glue and not platic glue. You can pop off a part without having to cut into plastic.

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Re: 8th Edition Wulfen Tactics

Post by ado409 » Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:58 pm

mmsolo. I have devised a solution for my need for a HQ for under 150 points.

My blood angels mate plays dante with jump pack and keeps up with his flyers to give them rerolls to hit. So i was thinking around the same idea.

Thinking about a wolf lord with a powerfist perhaps (already has a 4++ so you woundt need to spend points on a shield) and put him on a bike. Always advance with him so he will move 14" +6" advance, = 20". And both flyers must move a minimum 20" so thats perfect. And the amount of fire power that they produce already with some rerolls in there is just brutal. Just put him between the two flyers and run then up the board, closest model most of the time will be a flyer so your lord should be pretty safe.

Thoughts? Ill give it a go and let you know. :)
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Re: 8th Edition Wulfen Tactics

Post by mmsolo » Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:26 am

Can be interesting.

But i don't like using character just for their aura, i want them to act, to charge to crush some skulls haha, that's a personal taste . I mean if i have one i'll try to place him to give that aura to the maximum things i can, but at the end the character will be with a pack smashing things.

Jump pack would be cheaper , do you want a bike for the extra toughness ? 2" difference isn't a big deal and he will be able to charge ennemi flyers.

You can use him in the first turns for your flyers and then for the units desembarking also .

I don't have enough models for now to do it, but i'm looking a bit more at the rune priest. Smite is good, i like the -1 to hit for an enemy , but now with the new death guard and a lot of slow thing, jaw of the wolrd wolf can be amazing. We also have a potential invulnerable save for them, not like librarian, and they are better in close combat . I won't consider a terminator armor without other termis on the field, cause i want him to cast turn 1 some things te help and not wait for the first wave. And because my futur list is quite fast, jump pack can be nice.

Still hoping for nice relics for wolf priest and rune priest in the futur.

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