8th Edition Space Wolves Tactics

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ado409
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8th Edition Space Wolves Tactics

Post by ado409 » Mon Aug 21, 2017 2:32 am

UPDATED *: WUlfen cant be taken in drop pods.

During 7th edition, i thought it would be brilliant to have 15 Wulen with claws running around the board and carving up. The usually went on foot as they wernt allowed to use drop pods, land raiders were too expencive and when taking then in a flyer for a tournament, the flyer always exploded in one shot, killing all my wulfen too. So walking wulfen was the way to go, but as you know, a 4+ save and a 5+ FNP was not very good unless you had some sheilds in there to negate some low AP shots.

But now, in 8th, flyers wont be able to die as easily. Plus having more than one threat on your side of the board really makes your opponent think about what they want to destroy first. This stategy assumes one or more units of wulfen of 5 will be taken in flyers with 1 claw, 2 axes and 2 shields and hammers as the loadout.

So a few tactics ive found:
1. Stormfang Gunship carry
Taking flyers now are boss. You cant take wulfen in the Stormfang Gunship as it has a capacity of 6, wulfen count as 2 models each, and wulfens minimum squad is 5. So thats a no goer. BUT you can take them in the Stormwolf. You can take up to 8 Wulfen in this bad boy with a capacity size of 16 and as you do not need to hover your flyer to disembark models, you can zip your flyer up to wherever you need the wulfen to be turn one, soak up some shooting (and even if the flyer dies, the wulfen are put where they need to be), and then drop them off the next turn and wreck havoc. As you can be whithin 1" of enemies but 3 inches from the flyer with a max move distance of 60" your gonna put them wherever you want. Problem there enlies is that, if you dont get first turn, and your flyer dies in your deployment zone, your wulfen are toast. Having more big threats to throw in the enemies face is reccommended here. Update: Ive now found that, for a 2000 pioint game, a good death star loadout is to have a stromwolf with your 5 wulfen and an on food rune priest with whichever power will help in that game, next to a stormfang gunship. Two ships with a tonne of firepower. Then behind them, taking a wolf lord on a bike to reroll ones to hit. BAsically always advancing him to keep up with the flyers minimum move distance of 20". Then if you have the points, have a wof guard battle leader on bike which can reroll ones to wound. So most of the time for every gun on the fylers, youl be hitting on 3's rerolling 1's and wounding on 3's rerolling ones. Absolutely brutal.

3. More of an AND than an OR but Njal Stormcaller or 1-2 rune priests.
Adding in this badboy is fantastic. Njal can know the three wolves 3 powers plus smite (rune priests can only know 1 + smite) and can try to cast two a turn with a plus 1 to cast and plus 1 to deny with a reroll. I would reccommend possibly smite if you need to wounds, OR try for Jaws of the World Wolf. Casts on a 7, (6 for Njal) you then pick a non vehicle unit, roll 2D6 and minus the enemies movement characteristic which in most cases will be 6. If you get a good roll off, you could potentially get 6 mortal wounds to a unit. I would use my command rerolls for this hands down. This gets can get rid of 5 man units, plus smite on top if needed for some serious potential. Then if you dont use Smite, either one of the Storm caller or tempest wrath abilities could be usefull here. Tempests wrath (Casts on 6, 5 for njal) allows Njal to pick an enemy unit whithin 18", and they have a negative 1 to hit rolls for the next turn. Potentially saving your wulfen some wounds when they get targeted after wrecking whatever thay have charged. Storm caller (Casts on 6, 5 for njal) allows himself and units around him to take the benefit of being in cover. which can be huge for wulfen who do not have a great flat save. Also, Taking the 5++ on the rune priest really is a bonus. This plus having the plasma pistol can help your cheap psyker do a good 2-3 wounds per round.

Njal also will be able to benefit from the curse of the wulfen rules. allowing him to reroll charges while out of combat, and get +1 attack to his base 3 attacks. He packs a decent punch also. there is the option to take him with or without the terminator armour as you wish, and also deepstrike or just take him in the flyer. The flyer may allow him to get in range to benefit from many of the Wulfen abilities and actually get in combat rather than deepstriking him.
Last edited by ado409 on Thu Oct 19, 2017 5:50 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: 8th Edition Wulfen Tactics

Post by Koonitz » Mon Aug 21, 2017 10:16 am

ado409 wrote:
Mon Aug 21, 2017 2:32 am
Drop pods come in at the end of whatever movement phase you would like, can land 9" away from enemy models, and the Wulfen can disembark but must be 9" away also (so that would mean you, ould put your droppod 11" away and line your wulfen just outside of 9". Then, as disembarking rules work in our favour, you can then continue on, moviing shooting and charging as normal.
Please note that, as the drop pod comes down at the END of the movement phase, you are not able to move the Wulfen after disembarking except for the normal disembarkation rules (within 3" of the vehicle) and outside 9" of the enemy.
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Re: 8th Edition Wulfen Tactics

Post by ado409 » Tue Aug 22, 2017 5:48 pm

Updated original post above to reflect wulfen rules.
Last edited by ado409 on Thu Oct 19, 2017 5:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 8th Edition Wulfen Tactics

Post by mmsolo » Tue Aug 22, 2017 11:01 pm

Sorry but Wulfens can't take drop pod.

At the start of the space wolf part of the book there is a little note associate with a little (1) saying that thoses marked vehicules can take wulfens and therefore they take 2 places. But this note refer to certain vehicles, and it's only land raiders ( all sorts ). Later in the book the space wolves flyers specify that they also can.

To me the simple fact this note exist prove that without it you just can't embark them even if they are just "infantry" no mater if they count as 1 or 2 each.

About wulfens. In 7th thunderwolves were THE thing to have, with shields etc. They loose a lot since 8th. Anyways, it's just to make a comparison, wulfen can move 7" advance and still possibly charge, so on the average they have a move of 11" something like that. Pretty much the same as thunderwolves. They can take stormshield with a normal price of 5points. Giving them the best invuln possible ( the last erata don't let grey knights going up to 2++ thank you ) , so they have 1 toughness less ans one wound less than thunderwolves but are cheaper. So pretty much something quite similar. Not so much... they can ignore lost wounds on 5+ with a 8th's meta where mortal wounds are everywhere THIS is huge to me.

All of that to said, everybody seems to be ok to bring thunderwolves and runnning accross the board ( ok they can't do anything else but still ) , so why not with just as fast wulfens ? realy good against mortal wounds ? With cheap shields ? ( thunderwolves have to pay 15 to have it )
So basically to me they don't need anything to move. No transport and no Njal ( he may worth it for his own reason, but nothing specific to the wulfens )

As any big units crossing board you just need other fast and scarry thing to keep you opponent buisy and not able to focus them. Also taking More than 5 wulfen cost to much to me, and make it a too obvious target. With 5 they are already crushing skulls with a nice ST of 5 base and a lot of attacks. I did the math and claws for their extra attack is most of the time better than axes unless you charge but still rerolling to wound is quite big and cheaper than an axe, i just don't take axes. I will go for something like 2 hammers, the leader and the other two with claws, you have here a strong unit with some invul if you need some. 6 hammer attacks ST 10, 13 claws attacks ST 6 rerolling to wound even if you don't charge.

That said, blood claws, I loved them since 8th came out, they finally worth it. But you don't need to have to many of them. Just one big unit with Lukas and a wolf priest. If you also have wulfen nearby thay are going to charge easily or possibly do more attacks.
Just one of that unit i will try to convince you that they are not weak at all.
First the stormwolf is obviously for them, with lukas and a priest you still can go up to 14 guys. The wolf priest worth it because they are a lot, if that was a smaller unit it wouldn't worth it.

Then Lukas. Giving them +1 to they hit roll make the entire unit hit on 2+ in close combat. That's quite huge, no other SM unit can have than many attack on 2+ ( 14 guys is going to be 42 attacks if you give the wolf guard and the leader a weapon ). So you hit on 2+ and reroll it going to an average successfull hit of 38-40 something around that. Ok that still it's some ST4 no AP attacks.

You have to have more puch. Give the wolf guard and the pack leader a hammer/power fist. Why ? with 3 attacks each on a charge it's cheap, but even more it's some rare models not being a character able to hit on 3+ with thoses weapons. Lukas negate the big weapon malus. You now have 6 attacks ST8 AP -3 3orD3 D on 3+ rerolling, for ... 66 points ( with the futur codex according to the SM point cost power fists and hammers will be cheaper : 54pts ) it's as cheap as one wulfen with hammer. 8 ST but hiting easier and you have 6 attacks on the charge. The big downside of hammers/fists it the minus 1 to hit. They don't carre thanks to Lukas and still have more attacks than wolf guard in a unit when charging ( for thoses two weapons ). So they can hit hard, and the 36 other attacks can be big on infantry.

Still not convinced? First i never give them shooting weapons. They are not good at shooting or just as good as grey hunters, and having a charge bonus in my mind they need to charge to have they full potential. It's close combat or nothing ! So why talking about shooting ? Lukas and Plasma ! The side effect of Lukas aura on blood claws is not somthing to miss. +1 to hit means the wolf guard pack leader hit on 2+ when shooting ( Lukas too by the way ) , and on 3+ for a regular bloodclaw. But this +1 make any 1s to hit.... a 2. Meaning that you just CAN'T die when overcharging your plasma if Lukas is here ( assuming there is no -1 to hit somewhere ). But decided to go for close combat so what ? Go for pistol it's kinf of an extra close combat attack , Pretty much one attack of power fist with 12" range usable in close combat, easier to hit with ( in the shooting phase ) in addition to everything a said before thanks to the pistol rule . And you can take one more pistol on a regular blood claw.

That potential take only aura into account. Looking at Lukas stats... he is worth taking anyways, he is a beast in close combat, and even without an invuln your opponent will hit him with a -1 ( imagine going againt some weapon aready having a -1 ?) and can take bikes, termis, primaris, wulfens in a single hit thanks to his awsome claw. And even if he die... his stasis bombe make his death worth it on the right target, he is scary to charge against, but still character, so you pretty much HAVE to go in close to get him .

So you have Two good character by themselves giving a simple bloodclaws pack more potential than many elite units... Even if this is an investment that's not as expenssive as many Elites units and being 14 think of multiple charges, the two big units will be on something strong and the others of infantry ? Add the characters into the mix ...

Without Lukas, this is something else... And extra units of blood claws may not be always interesting, but this loadout is to me realy good. Plasma + Lukas is a good chemistry.

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Re: 8th Edition Wulfen Tactics

Post by ado409 » Wed Aug 23, 2017 10:05 pm

100% agree now. wulfen CANNOT take drop pods.

I beleive however, the claws on leader, two shields and hammers, and two axes is the way to go.

2 hammers is a must for invulns, leader auto has claws. So this is a test between claws and axes for the other two in the squad.

Putting all the statistics through http://mathhammer.thefieldsofblood.com/ to get the following results:

Note: Using regular marines saves of a 3+ as our infantry control, and then a rhino as a tank standard of 3+, lets see what the hammer of math comes up with. Also, resulting wounds come from after saves are taken.

Lets do Infantry control first:

Hammers x 2: S10, Damage is 3 flat, - 3 AP, -1 to hit (so 4+), wounding on 2+ (double toughness) and having two of them that 6 attacks. Obviosly the 3 damage per wound wont matter so i changed that wound state to 1 damage as most infantry will have 1 wound.

The Results: 2 wounds.

Claws x 2: S6, 8 attacks (plus one for using the two claws), hitting on 3's, wounding on 3's, -2AP. Only doing one wound here though.

The Results: 3 wounds

Axes:S8, 6 attacks, but an extra 1 on the charge. so we will add in both results here (making 8). hitting on 3's, wounding on 2's, -3 AP, doing D3 wounds per attack. Obviosly the D3 damage per wound wont matter so i changed that wound state to 1 damage as most infantry will have 1 wound.

The Results: 6 attacks = 2.8 , 8 attacks = 3.7

So currently, Claws and axes stack up, but getting the charge off on the axes will help more. Axes are up at this point.

Next up, vehicles:

Hammers x 2: S10, Damage is 3 flat, - 3 AP, -1 to hit (so 4+), and having two of them that 6 attacks. 3 damage helps here

The Results: 5/6 wounds.

Claws x 2: S6, 8 attacks (plus one for using the two claws), hitting on 3's, wounding on 5's, -2AP. Only doing one wound here though.

The Results: 2 wounds

Axes:S8, 6 attacks, but an extra 1 on the charge. so we will add in both results here (making 8). hitting on 3's, wounding on 3's, -3 AP, doing D3 wounds per attack.

The Results: 6 attacks = 4.5 , 8 attacks = 6

Also just for shits and gigs, the leader would have 5 attacks, (4 as leader, +1 for claws), S6, -2, 1 damage. Equates to 2 wounds against infantry, and 1 wound against T7 tanks.

So in conclusion,

Attacking tanks:
Leader + 2 hammers + 2 axes = 1 + 6 + 6 = 13
Leader + 2 hammers + 2 claws = 1 + 6 + 2 = 9

Attacking infantry:
Leader + 2 hammers + 2 axes = 2 + 2 + 3.7* = 7.7 (lets say 8 ) (and also noting the math here was done with 1 wound a peice. not D3) (*accounting for 1 wound per infantry model, would be 7.4 wounds when D3)
Leader + 2 hammers + 2 claws = 2 + 2 + 3 = 7 .

Axes and claws will do the same amount of damage against infantry, but the axe then (for 2 points more) allows for triple the damage on vehicles, which allows you to charge either infantry or tanks with ease.
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Re: 8th Edition Wulfen Tactics

Post by mmsolo » Thu Aug 24, 2017 7:03 am

You might be right about axes. I didn't look enough into it.

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Re: 8th Edition Wulfen Tactics

Post by ado409 » Mon Aug 28, 2017 3:23 am

Played a game with the five wulfen and a wolf priest in a flyer. The re rolls to hit are absolutely not needed. Single axed wulfen were killing 4 blood angels death company a swing, and the leader with claws solod a unit of scouts. Then with one ade and two shields to go.
Then with my last solo axe wulfen (the rest got shot to peices) i inflicted four wounds on dante, but he saved them all with a 4+ invuln. But that may have potentially done 4D3 wounds to his warlord. Thats pretty baller unit. There. I thought maybe i could include a small unit of blood claws in the flyer, but it think thats where i draw the line of too many eggs in one basket. Wulfen wreck face. But their 4+ save hurts. Im thinking of a phsyker taking the +1 cover save would help here. Any other odeas?
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Re: 8th Edition Wulfen Tactics

Post by mmsolo » Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:40 am

They look deadly, i like it.

Doesn't their 5+ ignoring lost wounds compensate the 4+ save ? And some storm shields. But you have to take some wounds on one of them first to realy benefit from it. So at least 2 hammers/shields i guess.

To me if i play wolf priest ( and i want to, i like them ) it's not with a unit already that good for sure. If they are also in range it's only a bonus.
I don't plan to play them in a flyers , i keep the room for a wolf priest/lukas and blood claws. They are a lot more and the rerolling hits + lukas make them realy good. Even a powerfist/hammer is going to hit on 3+ and some plasma pistol won't overheat. With thoses auras, they worth having some big weapons.

Did your wolf priest did well ? most of us take him because of his aura but he can heal himself ( or other multi wound models ) and deal some 2D wounds.

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Re: 8th Edition Wulfen Tactics

Post by ado409 » Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:17 pm

The Wolf priest got out of the flyer, and failed the charge with the wulfen even with the reroll, leaving him open in the middle of the board for a massive enslaught (got all a stormravens shots into him ). Was a sad time.
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Re: 8th Edition Wulfen Tactics

Post by mmsolo » Tue Aug 29, 2017 6:40 am

Ho ... sad !

Didn't you have any back up? other fast unit behind your tranport to bubble him a bit.

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Re: 8th Edition Wulfen Tactics

Post by ado409 » Tue Aug 29, 2017 8:52 am

The list without points, should be about 2000.

HQ:
Ulrik the Slayer
Wolf Lord

Troops:
Grey Hunters x 5
Grey Hunters x 5
Grey Hunters x 5

Transports:
Razorback w/Twin assault cannon
Razorback w/Twin assault cannon
Razorback w/Twin assault cannon

Flyers:
Stormfang
Heavy Bolters
Lascannons

Stormwolf:
Heavy Bolters
Lascannons

Heavy Support:
Predator
w/ all lascannons
Predator
w/ all lascannons

Fast attack:
Cyberwolf

Elites:
Wulfen
2xhammers + shields
2x axes
leader with claws
Last edited by ado409 on Thu Aug 31, 2017 5:32 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: 8th Edition Wulfen Tactics

Post by mmsolo » Tue Aug 29, 2017 11:41 am

i don't know with what you did that list , but that's a bit hard to read. No idea how many models are in the units, a lot of points sometimes an item sometime a character but including the items .

Wulfens have 2 lines about storm shield/hammer so i don't know if it is 4 guys or just a mistake.

Well i get the overall idea and i know quite well the different point cost so i'm not lost. But that's not clear and easy to read.

I don't realy like bearbones grey hunters. They are too ... tasteless. But you have some nice shooting on the rest of the list ( 2 flyers , just that, it's a lot )

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Re: 8th Edition Wulfen Tactics

Post by Koonitz » Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:12 pm

ado409 wrote:
Tue Aug 29, 2017 8:52 am
<The List>
Please remove all individual points costs. It is against forum posting rules and has been known to get the forum in trouble from time to time. Post nothing more specific than total unit cost.
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Re: 8th Edition Wulfen Tactics

Post by Kovlovsky » Tue Aug 29, 2017 5:57 pm

Yep, individual point costs for every item cannot be displayed on the forum. So, please remove them ASAP. Your are only allowed to put the total point cost for a particular unit and the list total of course.
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Re: 8th Edition Wulfen Tactics

Post by ado409 » Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:26 am

Thanks guys. Removed the post. Cheers.
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