New to marines (for the 3rd time)

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jacktheodd
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New to marines (for the 3rd time)

Post by jacktheodd » Fri May 10, 2013 6:25 am

Pretty self explanatory, marines and I are constantly falling out and making up over the years (although I was largely a B.Templar player just for the fact the modeling opportunities they provided) and I never have truly sat down and understood the army.
So to make up for this I have got myself a pretty standard sized army, codex (going down the vanilla flavored route simply because I saw there was a night watch chapter and that caused the strange cogs in my head to turn and make great thinking movements) and want to make it work and know how to expand.

This is where you, my battle brother/sister (or both, although that probably makes you a worshiper of slanesh...BURN THE WITCH), come in.

I would like to ask the following:
Whats hot and whats not? I have a land-speeder storm (love that model) and can make it work...after some expensive tooling out and incredible luck (1st turn and enemy not realising who was sat in there) I can make some big plays but I want to know if there is anything else I can take that will do the job better. So any thoughts? Tips?

Tactics? Cheeky question, I know but is there any great tactics I should take into account?
The army I want to do will be gun line whilst having a few units appear behind the enemy and cause havoc.
Please note I am amazed I could spell tactics after a 6 year strong ork/khorne marine rampage and a years worth of pure grot goodness (one win and countless losses but that win was against death-wing so I am happy); run that way hit with axe and run it over if that fails.

Personal preferences? Strange question but actually fairly useful to me, I like to take a lot of things into account when making an army. So if I hear some one has had success with one combo or this and that then I will look into deeper.

Okay thats it for now, cheers in advance for any answers

J.T.O
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jacktheodd
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Re: New to marines (for the 3rd time)

Post by jacktheodd » Mon May 13, 2013 5:24 am

Ronin wrote:. I've personally always abide by Fritz's holy trinity rule where you have to have an offensive expendable unit to distract and tank the enemy, a defensive unit to take objectives, and a support unit to protect both of the above.

If you used space wolves, an example would be
- Offense: Thunder wolves
- Defense: Grey Hunters
- Support: Long Fangs
Could you explain this, first time I have heard of such a tactic? And are there any good vanilla combos that fall under this? I think the storm is okay for some of this roll but...one bolter can bugger me over.
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CroixAura
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Re: New to marines (for the 3rd time)

Post by CroixAura » Thu May 16, 2013 2:04 pm

Ronin wrote:It's a similar concept to MMORPG raids where you have a set of players who act as the tank and soaks up the wounds, a DPS set of players that do the majority of the damage, and a healer who... heals and support the party. Look at your codex and decide what roles each unit can play and then try to compile a list with this trinity in mind. They don't have to be a perfect balance.
It seems to me a pretty sound tactic, maybe have the expendable dps as something like a fast attack or infiltration, or in the case of space marines, basic space marine squad?

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Re: New to marines (for the 3rd time)

Post by SobieFett » Fri May 17, 2013 12:23 pm

I'm willing to bet as Vanilla it might round out like this.

Tank: Land Raider / Termies or SM Bikes ( for the higher toughness)
Defense: Your tac squads w/ Rhino or razor back / (have to be scoring)
Support: thunderfire cannons / preds / AC Dreds / Devs

I suppose there is no true healer in a game like 40k but it seems like sound logic. The tank is something that just takes time to get rid of. 6 man dev's with Aegis Def Line/ TLAC is something I personally like to do. Or combat squad your tac and have one man fire it.

Edit: The Tank should just pull your opponents eyes towards it and be survivable. While a landraider isn't very scary, the termies inside might not be so cuddly.

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Re: New to marines (for the 3rd time)

Post by jacktheodd » Mon May 20, 2013 6:46 am

Thanks for the comments, they are helping me get to grips with the book and has actually helped me in a few test games.

@SobieFett, I stole the 6 man dev idea but I added to it and I have become a very disliked marine with my friends. I kept the defense line and threw in a razor back with tw assault cannon, needless to say this unit just sat there and when something brave enough or stupid got too close were swiftly gunned down in a red mist of bullets form the RB.

In regards to the dungeon group set up, I used my dev/rb/dl as the dps.

My tank was a count as cpt lysander in a Termie unit with ss/that deep-strike behind my opponents. Out of the four games played this weekend, they only had one bad game once and that was because the damn ork player just went full mobs (no tanks, to buggies, just boyz.) and I poorly misjudged a "good" landing zone.I thought it was safe...no. BAD IDEA. STUPID JACK. They landed and then just got mugged by 3 units of 30 boys, looked epic and heroic, etc but dear god they took a beating.

Although they lasted three turns of this mosh pit, they failed their main roll of taking out the warboss who (very unork like ) hid himself behind a bunker all game, in fear of having the sniper scouts using his head as a pin cushion.

As for the "healer", I found a landspeeder storm with 5 scouts (combi melta, PF, other tank hunting goodies) did this job amazingly well, even if they became the tank at one stage and managed to take half a IG gun line worth of shooting just to get rid of the LSS's H.flamer.

So thanks Ronin for that advice, works like a dream :P although I will have to find new combos as I am convinced the dev and LSS are going to be the first unit to go down from now on. Ha!

Something that has been bugging me though, dreadnoughts. Which ones do you have the most success with. I mean I understand job of each but as I am am gun heavy and need just a little umpth to clack my opponent round the back of the head with, which would be better?

Also Honor guard, vanguard or sternguard? which do you think are worth their weight in points/gold?

Again thanks for all the help, really enjoying this forum's community :)

JTO
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Re: New to marines (for the 3rd time)

Post by SobieFett » Mon May 20, 2013 1:32 pm

For Vanilla, if you want to get close the ironclad is really your only bet. I mean or go cheap DDMM. Otherwise most people do 2 x Auto Cannon.

Vanguard (whilest my most favorite fluff unit) are overpriced and don't pack a huge punch. Now Drop pod Sternguard are going to get their points back. From a 5 man suicide unit (DP 2 x M 3 x CM) to a 10 man drop ( split into 2 combat squads)(go 2 Meltas - 4 CM - 4 CF) drop pod and blow up 2 tanks. Want that in overdrive, add vulkan he'stan as your warlord (2+/3(i)) and twin linked flamers / meltas. You would have fried some orks. Then roll 3's and 2+ to wound rapid fire / ignore cover ammo / and don't use dragon ammo. Gets hot is not worth it. Mine usually last 2 or 3 turns. I tell you they will get their points back +. That is a guarantee. No vehicles no problem - insta kill commanders with your meltas. In combat they aren't bad but try to get charged. Or just melta two vehicles and keep your flamers for being charged. They are my swiss army knife. I don't think there is one thing they have ever failed me on. BA they are just as good.

But just a heads up, that is a 335 pt unit. Who knows, I've popped a LR and killed 3 termies in one drop. (bad rolls might have been involved) But it's a first blood for sure if you get first turn. Even though kantor turns them into scoring units I find Vulkan twin linking them to be the most deadly.

Honor guard - I don't know i never used them.

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Re: New to marines (for the 3rd time)

Post by jacktheodd » Tue May 21, 2013 9:20 am

SobieFett wrote:For Vanilla, if you want to get close the ironclad is really your only bet. I mean or go cheap DDMM. Otherwise most people do 2 x Auto Cannon.

Vanguard (whilest my most favorite fluff unit) are overpriced and don't pack a huge punch. Now Drop pod Sternguard are going to get their points back. From a 5 man suicide unit (DP 2 x M 3 x CM) to a 10 man drop ( split into 2 combat squads)(go 2 Meltas - 4 CM - 4 CF) drop pod and blow up 2 tanks. Want that in overdrive, add vulkan he'stan as your warlord (2+/3(i)) and twin linked flamers / meltas. You would have fried some orks. Then roll 3's and 2+ to wound rapid fire / ignore cover ammo / and don't use dragon ammo. Gets hot is not worth it. Mine usually last 2 or 3 turns. I tell you they will get their points back +. That is a guarantee. No vehicles no problem - insta kill commanders with your meltas. In combat they aren't bad but try to get charged. Or just melta two vehicles and keep your flamers for being charged. They are my swiss army knife. I don't think there is one thing they have ever failed me on. BA they are just as good.

But just a heads up, that is a 335 pt unit. Who knows, I've popped a LR and killed 3 termies in one drop. (bad rolls might have been involved) But it's a first blood for sure if you get first turn. Even though kantor turns them into scoring units I find Vulkan twin linking them to be the most deadly.

Honor guard - I don't know i never used them.

A man after my heart...FIRE. I am more than happy to drop a unit or two to fit that monstrous combo in my list. Think Ill drop the lysander/10 TH/SS termies as that..is well over 600pts....I will post my list tomorrow, any comments would be great.

regarding that kill unit sobie mentioned, I thought a librarian or chaplain would look brilliant in that unit due to the extra boost it would give them and am I right in thinking I should sit vulkan in the SG unit or in some unit sat behind a rock, safe(ish) from enemy attack?

Again thanks for all the help
JTO
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Re: New to marines (for the 3rd time)

Post by SobieFett » Tue May 21, 2013 3:36 pm

One idea I haven't tried but man is it tempting. I always put Vulkan in the SG unit to drop in. But with a 12 model cap. Put Vulkan with one combat squad and put Chaplain Cassius with the other. (Vulkan 2+ / 3+ saves) (Cassius 3+(4+I)FNP T6) Plus cassius has a combi-flamer with 2+ wounding rapid fire bolter. Vulkan and Cassius are your meat shields to your sternguard. Like I said never tried it but it sounds great. Vulkan is a survivor. I mean if you're lucky/stupid/dedicated enough you can get First Blood / Warlord / victory points. You'll have plenty of warning.

Also coming in at 625 points you can best of both worlds. 5 man TH/SS termies in a LR w/ Vulkan and a 5 man stern guard melta suicide unit. Vulkan twin links your meltas flamers and TH and has the same save as them. Come straight at them at the same time kidney punch them.

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Re: New to marines (for the 3rd time)

Post by jacktheodd » Wed May 22, 2013 5:41 am

I agree with ronin about the risk being too big. I realised the SG unit is purely suicidal, why the name of terra would I throw in my warlord into that unit. Seems like a bad move. I did think about using other named characters but honestly I think a basic chapter master would be better, pie templates from the sky will be very helpful and allow me to smite big targets easily. As for the units note sure as the only infinty units in my list are 2 x ten scouts (10 snipers, 10 bolters), 1x 5 man scouts unit for the storm. I suppose dropping the ten bolter unit for ten man marines would be a better bet or I could look at tweaking the list a bit.

list so far is as follows :

vulkan
Cmaster: A.armour, 2x lightening claws, digital weapons

10x Sguard 6 cmeltas, 2cflamers, 2 meltas. Droppod.
Iclad Dread, droppod

10 sniper scouts, camo cloaks, Hbolter.
10 bolter scouts, sgt: PF cmelta Mbombs, Hbolter
5x scouts, sgt: PF cmelta Mbombs, LS.storm (mmelta)

4x scout bikes, 3 GL, sgt Cmelta. cluster mines
4x scout bikes, 3 GL, sgt Cmelta. cluster mines

6x dev, 2 mmelta, 2Hbolter. RB TL assault cannon
6x dev, 2 mmelta, 2Hbolter. RB TL assault cannon
Thunderfire cannon

Roughly 1990pts. Thoughts?
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Re: New to marines (for the 3rd time)

Post by SobieFett » Wed May 22, 2013 11:49 am

Find 100 points to drop for a ADF. The Chapter Master will work but I would drop the claws. Maybe a PS or a alternate combi weapon. The SG need to shoot more than they get into melee.

The SG are only as suicidal as you make them. My suicide SG is 5 man DP 2xM 3xCM.

Then again I get the whole Warlord thing, but I just don't hide mine. If I go suicide SG, I don't take Vulkan unless I'm bringing TH/SS Termies.

And I would make your dev squads suit each other. 1 - 4 x HB 2 - 4 x MM. But it's your fun. Don't let me tell you how to have it.

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Re: New to marines (for the 3rd time)

Post by jacktheodd » Wed May 22, 2013 11:59 am

Tempted to drop the scout bikes as that will free up 240, and if I drop the TFC I think I could get the Termies in. back to the drawing board :P cheers for the help
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