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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 1:22 pm 
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I've been trying to think a lot about Command Points and what these are supposed to do, how they are supposed to affect the game.

I see there objective as two fold. Give players a tool to counter act some of the random elements and increase tactical choices by forcing players to apply a limited pool of bonuses to tip battles in there favor. However I'm just not really finding Command Points very enjoyable.

It reminds of a plot points in RPG games. To explain plot points are a stack of point players can use to affect the game in various ways such are adding bonus dice, pushing rolls higher or lower, preventing damage etc. etc.

The thing about them though is we always disallow them in player vs player fights. In the normal game they are a nice way to allow players to force the narrative in their favor a little and it makes the game more fun. It is an unfair advantage for PCs over NPCs, that is designed to be an unfair advantage.

I think we need something more for command, make it more dynamic to hold up as a universal mechanic that all armies have, else-wise we should just make it a single faction mechanic ala SoB's faith or drop it all together.

The problem with making it more dynamic is that we start treading into Warmachines/Hoards territory. Anyone have some ideas on what we can do with Command Points?


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 5:34 pm 
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From what has been suggested so far, these would be our options unless we come up with something completely different:
-Add to stats or rolls
-Extra actions
-Special abilities
-Reroll dice
-All or some of the above
-No command points
-I may be missing some other suggestions

I don't know how warmachine works, so I have no idea how close we are to its rules. My personnal preference would be for extra actions and special abilities (like in my playtest) or possibly something else if we come up with a really creative alternative.

I guess it all depends on how important you want command points to be in the game and in which way it would add more depth to the mechanics.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 5:53 pm 
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LLeRRoux wrote:
-Add to stats or rolls
-Extra actions
-Special abilities
-Reroll dice


See those are all what it would do, and for that any or all of those ideas are fine, but I'm talking more about how it interacts with the game.

In short how do you get command points? We need a way to force players to strategically gain command points rather then just flatly or arbitrarily because otherwise it just seems like for the most part you'll just use command points to counter act each other which means it is just really needless complexity. It doesn't actually add much depth or strategy to the game if command points are too static.

Dynamic examples (not the best examples but I hope you get the idea):

Certain units generate command points but not others.
Certain events like scoring a kill point generate a command point.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 7:14 pm 
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Oh, ok I thought you were wondering what they do...

Some suggestions on how to gain CP:
-Probabl start the game off with some already
-Killing a squad
-Capture a point
-Only regain a small amount every turn
-Maybe roll a command test when activating the commander?
-Getting the maximum result on certain rolls (12 on to hit or 2 for command check)
-Character-specific, such as regaining a CP for every wound lost or engaging in CC with an enemy characer. This would depend on the character's faction and specialisation. This allows more character design options and makes CPs much less boring, since a different character encourages different tactics in order to gain more CP.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 5:48 pm 
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I did a play test with command points.

I had command points be use to "unsuppressed" a squad, do a "take back" on impossible attack, allow the player to reactive a squad that was in overwatch but was enemies did a suppressing attack, and for power. To get command points I just said the active command gave so many command points for a single turn. I foudn it to be easy to keep track of a single number and even what I did with them with a fix starting number. Also with the single source I found it easier balance the powers cp cost.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 6:21 pm 
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Wiouds wrote:
I did a play test with command points.

I had command points be use to "unsuppressed" a squad, do a "take back" on impossible attack, allow the player to reactive a squad that was in overwatch but was enemies did a suppressing attack, and for power. To get command points I just said the active command gave so many command points for a single turn. I foudn it to be easy to keep track of a single number and even what I did with them with a fix starting number. Also with the single source I found it easier balance the powers cp cost.


Well I certainly can't argue with them being easier to balance that way, that is certainly a fact. I didn't use them in quite the same way as you when testing these out so I guess we'll have to explore the issue further.

However let me try to explain where I am coming from on this issue and see if you agree with my thoughts here or not. IMO a really good tactical game has a high degree of chance, but offers the players extensive tools to reduce that chance if the play tactically. VS having a ton of random chance (say a normal board game) or being totally static (like chess with no random chance only tactics).

So take a CCG for an example. High amount of chance with random card draws, but the cards offer lots of tools to allow you do things like draw more cards or search your deck or put multiples of a card into your deck to increase the odds of drawing it.

Command points are really our only tool so far suggestion here which could do that for our game allow us to include a fair bit of chance but give players the tools to minimize it. As such I feel reducing them to a static number really undermines the potential.

At least that is my design philosophy for what it is worth.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 2:33 pm 
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The die rolls is enough random chance for the game.

You ideal add too much complexity that does not seem to add to the game. Keeping track of the dynamic status of the Squads can be a challenge even with the markers.

A good tactical game have control over random chance. A high degree of random chance will change the game into a game of luck with a little tactics. Having a chance that an attack power will not hit the enemies is fine but having a random chance to see if the attack will hit and a random chance for the power to hit is too much. One thing I hate is when there a random chance for all power that are used on my own side could fail.

Setting the value at a constant value for each commander will give use more control of the type of commanders we can make. One command could give more command points but the power cost more while a different commander get less command points but can have more.

For the power I had four type:
Army power: these are the powers that the army have as a group. The are faction or sub-faction base.

Commander abilities: a number of a commander abilities are power used to improve the force.

sub-commanders abilities: commander that are not the active commanders are sub-commanders they can still use their power but at 1.5x the normal cost.

squad powers: some squad could have abilities that cost CP to be used. Normally the abilities also take action or activation to work.


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