Force Orginization Chart

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evilgreenthing
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Force Orginization Chart

Post by evilgreenthing » Tue Jan 03, 2012 8:14 pm

I was wondering how we were going to limit (if we want to, but I feel we should) what types of units, and how many of those units we could take. One idea I thought of is to have commanders like Warmachine, were the are unique characters, and each has a limit for the the number of units they take. I was also wondering how we would classify different units, as it need to happen. I dont mean that we need to come up with different units, but that we need classification, as it is a fairly basic mechanic. The classifications I was thinking is infantry, commander, Heavy, solo
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Re: Force Orginization Chart

Post by Wiouds » Wed Jan 04, 2012 10:29 am

I can see where that is important.

This is what I came up with for the organization:
Image

It is not done but you can see where it is going.

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Re: Force Orginization Chart

Post by Kris Knives » Wed Jan 04, 2012 10:59 am

Just a suggestion but I would make it a tiered command structure based on your commanders.

So you select your commander and that commander in addition to his other stats offers his or her own force organization for that army which might vary based on the commander which is in part in where I was going with the idea of Squad Leader in that thread.

So you pick your Commander. That units gives your options/restrictions on squad commanders. You select your squad commanders which gives you your total number of squads and then fill in those squads with additional units based on your remaining points.

I don't think we have to worry too much about how many units people put into a single squad due to suppression and overwatch mechanics since so far the game mechanics favor many smaller mobile units over 1 or two large ones. Unless there is some way to make a squad immune to those sorts of effects the game seems to simply have a natural point of diminishing returns on squad sizes. Maybe we'll need to limit squad sizes as the game evolves but I'm of the opinion that we should deal with that when and if it becomes a concern to Matt in the development process.

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Re: Force Orginization Chart

Post by Wiouds » Wed Jan 04, 2012 6:43 pm

One thing is that we need to do is limit the size of the squads. The states of the fighters are with a size of the squad in mind. Just think if they stats were made with the ideal that they were to be a small squad that with the rate of fire 3, hit points 2 and shooting skill of 4.

Think of that squad as squad of 9
That is a max of 27 possible hits.
A starting current offense of 13.
It will also the rate of lost squad members will be slower too.

That would break the game.

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evilgreenthing
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Re: Force Orginization Chart

Post by evilgreenthing » Wed Jan 04, 2012 7:08 pm

Size of a squad is more of an idivdual tune that depends upoun the unit.
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Re: Force Orginization Chart

Post by Wiouds » Wed Jan 04, 2012 10:35 pm

Is there anything you do not understand about my chart? I can try to explain it in detail.

What about one active commander all other commanders are sub-commanders?

I say squad does not need a stand out leader. Of course each squad will have a squad leader but I say they did not add in special rules to the game.

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Re: Force Orginization Chart

Post by evilgreenthing » Wed Jan 04, 2012 11:02 pm

First, no I dont really understand your chart
Second, I envision it so that theres one commander who u disignate as the Commander. You can have other leaders, but they are only subleaders. When you activate a leader to commander, you unlock certin ablities, one of which is the force orginazation ofr your army. I liked the idea that the leaders of the squads would, in general, be no different form the rest of the squad (with some exceptions), but that their main job was to represent the upgrades that the squad was equiped with
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Re: Force Orginization Chart

Post by Wiouds » Wed Jan 04, 2012 11:50 pm

It is a database that I work one. What it allows is for different fighter to use the same weapons but at different cost. The same goes for abilities and armor. It can also store armies information into it. I was able to get it to calculate the cost of that army.

The only problem with it could be how to give a person paper form of it.

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Re: Force Orginization Chart

Post by evilgreenthing » Wed Jan 04, 2012 11:59 pm

I dont know If you could...
Sounds cool though
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Re: Force Orginization Chart

Post by Kris Knives » Thu Jan 05, 2012 12:26 am

evilgreenthing wrote:I liked the idea that the leaders of the squads would, in general, be no different form the rest of the squad (with some exceptions), but that their main job was to represent the upgrades that the squad was equiped with
Good 'cause that is the idea I'm trying to get across more or less. I guess I just wasn't explaining it very well.

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evilgreenthing
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Re: Force Orginization Chart

Post by evilgreenthing » Thu Jan 05, 2012 1:15 am

Awesome, we agree!
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Re: Force Orginization Chart

Post by LLeRRoux » Thu Jan 05, 2012 8:44 am

evilgreenthing wrote:First, no I dont really understand your chart
Second, I envision it so that theres one commander who u disignate as the Commander. You can have other leaders, but they are only subleaders. When you activate a leader to commander, you unlock certin ablities, one of which is the force orginazation ofr your army. I liked the idea that the leaders of the squads would, in general, be no different form the rest of the squad (with some exceptions), but that their main job was to represent the upgrades that the squad was equiped with
That works for me. However, this means we must balance every commander's individual force chart rather than have one standard chart for everyone. We may have to create a default version of the chart, then modify it slightly for the different commanders.

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Re: Force Orginization Chart

Post by Wiouds » Thu Jan 05, 2012 9:26 am

I think I could have the information for the squads be set up base on the faction and maybe a sub-faction but I do not think it would work for the commanders. If you look at the chart you can see how complex the storage of the information is base off faction but to have it base off each commander would be a nightmare to create and maintain.

I think I found a paper format that should work for the squads having a different cost for abilities, weapons and armor.

For the squad leaders, the only reason to have them is to have them be where the ooverwatch angle works off.

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Re: Force Orginization Chart

Post by Kris Knives » Thu Jan 05, 2012 9:53 am

Wiouds wrote:I think I could have the information for the squads be set up base on the faction and maybe a sub-faction but I do not think it would work for the commanders. If you look at the chart you can see how complex the storage of the information is base off faction but to have it base off each commander would be a nightmare to create and maintain.

I think I found a paper format that should work for the squads having a different cost for abilities, weapons and armor.

For the squad leaders, the only reason to have them is to have them be where the ooverwatch angle works off.
This is just me but I'm fairly sure you are over thinking things. That chart is way more complicated then it needs to be. I'm fairly sure we can organize data in an easier way.

Plus, maybe I'm not understanding you but, your example seems to be more of a unit customization flow chart which isn't the same as force organization.

Unless I'm greatly mistaken normally a force organization chart is like:

Mandatory
HQ
X Troops

Optional
HQ
Y fast attacks
Z Heavy Supports

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Re: Force Orginization Chart

Post by Wiouds » Thu Jan 05, 2012 10:42 am

That is the the best way to store the information within a database. If you try to make it more simple will most likely cause the the database will get too complicated to work with, allow too many errors to happen, and make it harder to get to get the information out of it.

I say we have points for the army and a fielding point range base off the game type. Then the player will pick what the he/she wants for that range. If they do not want then they do not want command then do no need to add commanders.

Let say we have a game type that both player get the same fielding points range.

Lets say we have a game where on player A need to hold off player B's larger force for a number of turns.
Player A get to place a some cover that does not follow the cover groups rules. Player B get a larger fielding point range.

Edit to add:
The database has only one location for the information for the fighters, weapon, abilities, armor.

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