LLeRRoux's DP playtests

This is for topics that are out of date.
User avatar
MiniWarGaming Regular
Posts: 82
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2011 6:22 pm

LLeRRoux's DP playtests

Post by LLeRRoux » Tue Jan 03, 2012 3:07 am

Alright, so I did two playtests this weekend and I thought I'd share what I've found.

Both armies were the same and had:
-1 commander
-1 sniper
-1 grenadier from this thread (SS changed to 4)
-3 units of 5 soldiers

Rule modifications:
-Cover nerfed to light=2, heavy=4 (as suggested by Munchkin)
-A suppressed unit must use up its free action during its next activation to get back into action
-Implemented AoE attack with the grenadier (explained below)
-Defined the much-debated rules about command points (explained in detail here. I won't be writing too much about that in this thread)

AoE rules:
Instead of of rolling to hit, the shooter must roll 2d6 and subtract his shooting skill. This number represents the scatter distance, in inches. If that number is lower or equals zero, it's a direct hit and doesn't scatter. If it does scatter, roll a d6 to determine which direction it goes.
-1,2 means he undershoots and the shot scatters towards the shooter
-3 means he aimed towards the left of his target
-4 means he shot towards the right of his target
-5, 6 means he overshoots
Of course this isn't perfect, but I believe it's the best solution I could find (plus, correct me if I'm wrong, but when I throw something, i have a tendancy to misjudge the distance more often than the direction.) If we used Wiouds' hex base system, we could just assign a number to a side or corner of the base and that's the direction it goes.
The shot then explodes in a radius specified in the weapon stats (Blast #)
If the blast radius touches a unit on the opposite side of a piece of cover from the landing point, you roll in the same way as to hit in shooting, but you use the weapon's strength instead of the shooter's SS(which makes sense, since we want to see if the blast was strong enough to be felt on the pther side of cover)

Ex.: Grenadier shoots at soldier unit behind cover. Chooses a target in the unit and rolls for scatter.
Result: 6(roll) - 4(SS) = 2" scatter.
Rolls a 2 for scatter direction, so it lands 2" before the unit.
The blast still touches some models, but there's light cover between them and the impact point. Roll 2d6 for "cover penetration".
Result: 9(roll) + 3(gun str) + 1(unit size) = 13 > 12 so it still hits.
Blast touches 3 soldiers, so you roll d6s to wound as usual. 

Of course, now that I write it down, this "cover penetration" seems to be a pretty big disadvantage, essentially making him shoot at them with SS3. May want to fix that, but it'll just need some math tweaking. I do however want to keep a disadvantage for the shot to land behind the cover, since it would make sense IRL.

-I played the fist game using averages, but I soon figured out it didn't really make sense. Sure, it prevents the data from being biased by good/bad rolling, but it also creates a tactical restreint which, in my opinion, doesn't really allow to fully evaluate how well the rules work. Let me explain. When a sniper hides behind heavy cover, they get a defense of 12(base) + 4(cover) = 16. Now if I want to shoot at that sniper with my squad of 5 soldiers, since I'm using averages, I'll get a current offense of 5(# of men) + 2(SS) + 7(average roll) = 14. That means I don't get a single shot on him. Ergo, you'd have to be stupid to shoot at a sniper with your soldiers in an averages game. That's just one of the situations where you can't do something because the average is too low. Problem is, in a real game, I wouldn't actually mind taking a chance at shooting the sniper, or suppressing a commander, or whatnot. Anywho, long story short, I played the second game with dice rolls.
-When using dice, the game still felt well enough balanced. I even had a bit of fun! Good job on those mechanics, Matt.
-I think I wasn't careful enough with cover density/placement. In one playtest, a team had a lot more reliable cover at their disposal than the opponent.
-AoE was pretty effective, but the grenadiers are such a menace, they didn't get to fire alot. 12" range didn't help them survive either (which is perfectly fine, every unit/solo should have a weak point)
-Cover seems pretty fair. I know Matt and Dave had a few problems with cover being too strong, but I didn't find it too bad with the new numbers.
-Suppression works nicely, but I must admit I didn't find it worthwile enough to use suppression with my regular guys. Then again, I didn't try overwatch either.
-Didn't use overwatch, so can't comment on that
-Didn't use CC, mostly because I wasn't sure what rules to use for it
-4' x 4' is a great table size for this game

Possible fixes: (In the same order as problems stated in the previous list)
-Wiouds' cover distribution rules seem like a good idea to solve any terrain disadvanteges. (However, this can be hard to do objectively if you're playtesting alone)
-Suppression could be made better with Munchkin's idea of command checks every turn with lower modifier. That would make it a lot better

Wow, that's not a whole lot of problems to fix!

Plans for my next playtest:
-Try overwatch
-Try CC, probably with some rules from slaughtergames' CC thread.
-Apply the fixes mentionned in this post and in my CP post
-Maybe make two slighly different teams and see how that works
-Definitely sticking to dice rolls for my playtests
-Maybe make a batrep
-I'd very much like to try Wiouds' hex base idea, but that would mean I'd have to make 36 cardboard hexagonal bases, so I can't promise I will.
-Any ideas you have. Really, if you have anything you want to add to this list, I'm open to all ides so just post'em.

Thanks for reading!

MiniWarGaming Crazed Zealot
Posts: 644
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2011 5:21 pm

Re: LLeRRoux's DP playtests

Post by Wiouds » Tue Jan 03, 2012 11:11 am

You should try overwatch it changes the game for the better. If you have it stop attack and reduce movements then you find the game that has hard counters and a good deal over planning movements.

http://incompetech.com/graphpaper/hexagonal/ Here is a great way to get some hex grids.

User avatar
Kris Knives
MiniWarGaming Crazed Zealot
Posts: 529
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2011 3:48 pm

Re: LLeRRoux's DP playtests

Post by Kris Knives » Tue Jan 03, 2012 11:17 am

What type of game were you playing?

Was it just a kill point game or where there objectives?

User avatar
MiniWarGaming Regular
Posts: 82
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2011 6:22 pm

Re: LLeRRoux's DP playtests

Post by LLeRRoux » Tue Jan 03, 2012 11:43 am

Just having the teams shoot at each other until one of them was wiped out. Might try some kind of more developed scenario for my next playtest. Also, I'll see if I can get a friend to playtest with me and possibly give some more insight on things.


Thanks for the link, that really helps. Definitely using hexagons now... At least for one playtest to see how well it works.


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest