Movement Types

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Kris Knives
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Movement Types

Post by Kris Knives » Tue Dec 20, 2011 10:14 am

Since positioning is going to be key for DP, one might wonder will there be movement types?

At least normal and flight seems likely, but potentially you could also have "hover units" which might get bonuses for difficult terrain but not eliminate them or teleporting units which can move freely but must roll to make sure they materialize without taking a wound or even jumping units that can leap over obstacles and use that to rain down death from above and so and so forth.

Personally I think in such a positioning oriented game movement types are a must, but I don't know how much is too much. Too strong movement could ensure the enemy dominates through heavy cover and overwhelming suppression/overwatch.

Thoughts, opinions, concerns or ideas?

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Re: Movement Types

Post by Wiouds » Wed Dec 21, 2011 10:31 am

I can see other type of movements being in the game. To find which one works and which does not one will need to do a number of play tests.

Another question that comes up is how does cover affect movement.
If a Squad or member a squad want to move over the cover then what who does their movement change. Come some get little to no affect but moving over cover?

Can the movement be broken up so a squad can go around cover?

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Kris Knives
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Re: Movement Types

Post by Kris Knives » Wed Dec 21, 2011 12:15 pm

On top of that I'd ask questions like, is light cover even effective against flying units?

Can the movement be broken up so a squad can go around cover? I would say so but then again I'm already of the opinion that squads need to be able to break up and reform for various reasons.

Obviously movement is going to be critical to any army that has incentive to melee. Some animals for example might be able to burrow and move as if under heavy cover but then have to emerge to take any non-movement actions. Similarly I'd like to see at the very least "jump" or "leap" units have some sort of death from above rules that reduce or ignore cover's effects to add a risk vs. rewards element for using that movement aggressively to get in close to the enemy rather than cowering behind cover.

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Re: Movement Types

Post by Wiouds » Wed Dec 21, 2011 12:22 pm

While trying to come up with some more units I added a ability called freerun. freerun reduce the MP cost of moving over cover by a number of mp.

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Re: Movement Types

Post by Kris Knives » Wed Dec 21, 2011 12:35 pm

Wiouds wrote:While trying to come up with some more units I added a ability called freerun. freerun reduce the MP cost of moving over cover by a number of mp.
Sounds reasonable, but I hope it doesn’t end up like Halo Reach where running is consider a super power on par with making a healing energy shield or flying. :P

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Re: Movement Types

Post by Wiouds » Wed Dec 21, 2011 12:39 pm

I would think it would mainly go to the melee focus units so they can move in a more straight line and jump over the cover the enemy is using.

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Re: Movement Types

Post by saltinerunner45 » Thu Dec 22, 2011 12:57 pm

perhaps there are 2 levels to the game? "air" and land (maybe add sea? :P lol)
my point being that if your in the air (fliers/hovering/maybe even jumping for a short time) most terrain wont effect you at all. your movement wouldnt be slowed, you couldnt take cover, and enemys cover would receive a modifier because of the angel your shooting at them. im not sure how you would switch, maybe either 1mp or automatic.
certain types of terrain would effect you. trees may interfere with flying units movment if they are tall enough, maybe even block them. perhaps if your flying you can just move onto the second story of a building.

for teleportation perhaps it could work like in final fantasy tatics? you elect to move so far (for example 12 inches) and roll X number of dice and that was the maximum amount that you could have moved. either that or you just elect a direction and then roll the dice to see how far you move (if you dont make it you stay put as it fails). my X in this case would be a number written as "teleport X". these give you a large amount of risk to using either system.

as for my joke of sea, maybe people can dive underwater to take cover, but may only do so for one consecutive turn without an ability that makes them breathe underwater?

im sorry if these ideas have been stated, i havent been on here in a while :oops:
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Re: Movement Types

Post by Kris Knives » Thu Dec 22, 2011 1:12 pm

Thos are some good ideas.

What about modifying that flight idea a bit: Airborn units in motion get the equivalent of a light cover save due to their movement and difficult angles. So as long as they are zipping around they are hard to hit but if they just start hovering they become an easy target. I wish we could add some air vs air rules around that to make things more tactical like having the sun at your back or something to make air vs. air more tactical. What about having "dogfight" rules for air to air CC? Or do you think that might slow down the game too much?

The teleport idea sounds really great! That is a wonderful idea on how to handle that. I think that would be an ideal way to handle teleportation.

Don't know if we're going to have water. Might not really come up enough to need a rule about it.

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Re: Movement Types

Post by Wiouds » Thu Dec 22, 2011 1:23 pm

The air rules should good.

The main game is set around the great lakes so movement on around around water would happen often. Even boat to boat battles would happen.

So do we say the movement is multiple stories. with like -1 to 3 with 0 being normal land?

One thing is that I can see a good amount of cover on the field could that reduce straight lines between to points.

Do we say that they can break up these movement into a collection of short move like. Like a squad member with 6mp is to move around cover do they need to make like a 2mp straight line from behind cover and then more 4mp.

OR

Should we well allow a more flexible measurements like using a string to get the movement

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Re: Movement Types

Post by Kris Knives » Thu Dec 22, 2011 1:33 pm

Wiouds wrote:The air rules should good.

The main game is set around the great lakes so movement on around around water would happen often. Even boat to boat battles would happen.

So do we say the movement is multiple stories. with like -1 to 3 with 0 being normal land?

One thing is that I can see a good amount of cover on the field could that reduce straight lines between to points.

Do we say that they can break up these movement into a collection of short move like. Like a squad member with 6mp is to move around cover do they need to make like a 2mp straight line from behind cover and then more 4mp.

OR

Should we well allow a more flexible measurements like using a string to get the movement
Good point about the lakes, but why don't we table water for now and focus on the land battle first? Water could be tricky. Unless someone is really passionate about having lake battles or has a really clear idea of how everything could work it is probably something we would want to explore in a DP "expansion" after the base game is done. For small amounts of relevant water on most maps like a river I think the suggested cover rule for it works well enough.

As to your question, I'm more in favor of the string method. It is a pretty easy, quick and question free way to deal with such things but I can see both methods working.

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Re: Movement Types

Post by saltinerunner45 » Thu Dec 22, 2011 11:46 pm

Kris Knives wrote: What about modifying that flight idea a bit: Airborn units in motion get the equivalent of a light cover save due to their movement and difficult angles. So as long as they are zipping around they are hard to hit but if they just start hovering they become an easy target.
sounds good to me :)
What about having "dogfight" rules for air to air CC? Or do you think that might slow down the game too much?
hmmmm perhaps if you enter CC in the air and combat isnt resolved by the end of the turn, everyone in the combat hits the ground falling (because their grappling with one another) and must make a save?
also, while in the air does your movement stay the same, or change? for example if you had huge dragon-like wings, you might be able to move faster than normal in the air, but if you had bumblebee wings you may not move as far. it may just be simpler to keep your normal movement, but i just thought id throw that idea out
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Re: Movement Types

Post by slaughtergames » Fri Dec 23, 2011 9:02 am

- hadn't we decided DP could be happening anywhere? the lake thing isn't quite up to date

-but now on topic: i would suggest the following: have "normal" movement for walking units, and have special "flying" rules. "flying" would be a special rule in the units entry.

and regarding cover, i would suggest this:
if the unit moves, it can only gain cover from objects that you and you opponent decided is tall enough to do so. (which would be buildings/trees)

if the unit remains stationary, it gains cover like normal. (why woud they get up in the air/expose themselves, if they are going to stay put?)

though there could be the "hover" option: the unit does only gain cover from (see above), and gives a negative modifier to enemy cover...
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Re: Movement Types

Post by saltinerunner45 » Fri Dec 23, 2011 10:24 am

slaughtergames wrote: -but now on topic: i would suggest the following: have "normal" movement for walking units, and have special "flying" rules. "flying" would be a special rule in the units entry.
such as Flying 3 to show that they may move 3 inches sound good?

and regarding cover, i would suggest this:
if the unit moves, it can only gain cover from objects that you and you opponent decided is tall enough to do so. (which would be buildings/trees)
perhaps a negative shooting modifier then? i feel that it is much easier to dodge when in the air then when on the ground expecally when shooting at an angle, as for declairing beforehand what will cover them i agree, and perhaps any level of a building should be accessible then?

also, i was wondering if we had "deepstriking"? personally (if we do) i would treat it as though they had hidden themselves in cover, so would appear in elected terrain peices, but use whatever mechanic we have instead of a scatter die to determine if they got to the peice of terrain they wanted or if there was miscommunication.

if the unit remains stationary, it gains cover like normal. (why woud they get up in the air/expose themselves, if they are going to stay put?)
there are plenty of tactical reasons to do so even if they dont gain some kind of defence against shooting for being airborne. you could want to contest an objective without engaging in CC or bait a target into shooting them as opposed to a squad that you will need next turn, or you may have weapons that would be classified as "heavy" in 40k so they cannot move and shoot.

though there could be the "hover" option: the unit does only gain cover from (see above), and gives a negative modifier to enemy cover...
saltine runner thanks you for reading this post, and is sorry for his ramblings.
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Re: Movement Types

Post by Wiouds » Fri Dec 23, 2011 11:20 am

What about units that can move faster in straight lines than turning. Should there be something for those units. It would be cover place more important.

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Re: Movement Types

Post by Kris Knives » Tue Dec 27, 2011 9:40 am

I personally dislike any "people agree before the match" type rules. It can just lead to lots of problems if people disagree on how high trees are or if someone just forgets what they agreed on since it isn't marked in anyway. Better to have a simple strait forward rule then something that needs to be hashed out before each game.

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