Page 1 of 1

close combat RESOLUTION

Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 5:24 am
by slaughtergames
so let's get a way to resolve melee, it doesn't have to go on until everyone is dead.
a couple things i would include for melee res.:
-kills
-who charged
-who has an "advantageous" position. (i.e. defending obstacles etc.)
-who has more models in the close combat.

NOTE: this is meant to go hand in hand with the close combat mechanics in the other topic.

my proposal is:
count all your kills (let's say 3) + you charged(1) - 2 advantageous position (opp. are defending heavy cover) - 1 (opp. have 1 more model in melee after all attacks are made)

in short: 3+1-2-1=1. you win by one.

and then a command(ld) test would most probably follow

don't dare to not reply LOL....

Re: close combat RESOLUTION

Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 11:55 am
by DacoTrilar
Honestly, I don't think we need combat resolution, we just need a way for someone to voluntarily leave combat. Combat resolution is important in Warhammer, because otherwise the combats would never end. In Dark Potential, one side could easily get wiped out in a turn or two. I'd rather have this system:

Order of actions:
-Activate a unit
-use an action point for a retreat (Note: This must be the first action point the unit uses, a unit cannot attack and then flee combat)
-Both players make opposing CC checks to see if the retreating unit is caught (d6+CC Skill, ties catch the fleeing unit)
-If the fleeing unit is caught, the whole unit is immediately removed (Note: the other unit does not consolidate or anything)
-If the fleeing unit escapes, then the unit must immediately move up to X" and end at least 1" away from all enemy models (Note: X is the unit's movement)
-The unit can now make actions as normal with its remaining action point.


This idea probably has tons of problems, but I think it's a good representation of the system I'd want. Again, I don't think the combats are going to be long enough to need combat resolution beyond one side voluntarily flees or getting wiped out.

Re: close combat RESOLUTION

Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 1:42 pm
by slaughtergames
first off, i think we are thinking two very different things here, i'll briefly note down some differences.
you seem to think that a unit has two "action points" and cannot receive command points.(?)
i believe that a unit doesn't have those. instead, it can always do 1 free action. this would be shooting, moving, and other things that aren't special at all. then, if it wants to do a special action, like charge, throw grenades, overwatch, suppressing fire, move again, shoot again, etc. it needs to receive a CP. from a command model.

i do not know who is right, did i miss a topic? it seems to matter quite a bit.
DacoTrilar wrote:Honestly, I don't think we need combat resolution, we just need a way for someone to voluntarily leave combat. Combat resolution is important in Warhammer, because otherwise the combats would never end. In Dark Potential, one side could easily get wiped out in a turn or two. I'd rather have this system:

Order of actions:
-Activate a unit
-use an action point for a retreat (Note: This must be the first action point the unit uses, a unit cannot attack and then flee combat)
-Both players make opposing CC checks to see if the retreating unit is caught (d6+CC Skill, ties catch the fleeing unit)i think just d6 would be far to random to let the survival of the unit depend on. rather use 2d6
-If the fleeing unit is caught, the whole unit is immediately removed (Note: the other unit does not consolidate or anything)
-If the fleeing unit escapes, then the unit must immediately move up to X" and end at least 1" away from all enemy models (Note: X is the unit's movement)
-The unit can now make actions as normal with its remaining action point.

eventhough i play 40k, i do not like the idea of a fleeing unit being killed off by one bad dice roll. (i.e. your DP sweeping advance equivalent) i would suggest that a unit that tries to escape combat has to take an exp./morale check. if it fails, it turns into a FLEE! move, and thus destroyed completely if it is caught. but if it makes it, they fail to escape and the combat continues.

This idea probably has tons of problems, but I think it's a good representation of the system I'd want. Again, I don't think the combats are going to be long enough to need combat resolution beyond one side voluntarily flees or getting wiped out.
quick number crunch:
two 5 man squads are in combat. they fight simultaneously. i'm not going to note down the numbers, but both kill 2 models from the enemy unit respectively. in later rounds of cambat, they both kill 0,5 models.

in other words: our combat isn't by far as deadly as we thought. we either need to change the mechanic slightly, or develop combat resolution.

Re: close combat RESOLUTION

Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 2:52 pm
by Wiouds
I like the ideal that CC ends when one player choosing to move a squad away. After all positioning and movement should be more important.

Re: close combat RESOLUTION

Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 3:23 pm
by slaughtergames
Close Combat ALWAYS ends when one of the squads moves away succesfully. but in the end of my previous post, i stated why i think we need combat resolution.

Re: close combat RESOLUTION

Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 3:55 pm
by Wiouds
How more deadly do you want cc to be? Should the be 2x kills of range attacks?

Re: close combat RESOLUTION

Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 3:57 pm
by slaughtergames
no, i mean, like 1 or 2 more kills every round. i want to ensure that on of either units in CC is wiped out after 2 maybe MAYBE 3 rounds of combat. otherwise we NEED close combat resolution.

Re: close combat RESOLUTION

Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 4:35 pm
by Wiouds
What type of ratio do you want between the Shooting and the CC?

Re: close combat RESOLUTION

Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 4:37 pm
by slaughtergames
the same - or maybe CC should be deadlier. but that is VERY of topic. please help construct combat resolution

Re: close combat RESOLUTION

Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 4:58 pm
by Wiouds
I see both range and CC as squad to squad attacks.

Just as we do not want it to turn into a slug fest we also does not want it to turn into WW1 were both side shoot at each other from the cover without moving.

Re: close combat RESOLUTION

Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 5:06 pm
by slaughtergames
DUDE!! THAT IS SO OFF-TOPIC!!!

off-topic means that you aren't discussing the topic but just spitballing. that's kindof exactly what you're doing. this topic is not about how deadly the game should be. it is about COMBAT RESOLUTION!!!! :evil:

sorry mate, really no offence intended, but it's getting annoying now.

Re: close combat RESOLUTION

Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 5:08 pm
by slaughtergames
her's a little repost to skip past the spitballing between me and wiouds:


first off, i think we are thinking two very different things here, i'll briefly note down some differences.
you seem to think that a unit has two "action points" and cannot receive command points.(?)
i believe that a unit doesn't have those. instead, it can always do 1 free action. this would be shooting, moving, and other things that aren't special at all. then, if it wants to do a special action, like charge, throw grenades, overwatch, suppressing fire, move again, shoot again, etc. it needs to receive a CP. from a command model.

i do not know who is right, did i miss a topic? it seems to matter quite a bit.
DacoTrilar wrote:
Honestly, I don't think we need combat resolution, we just need a way for someone to voluntarily leave combat. Combat resolution is important in Warhammer, because otherwise the combats would never end. In Dark Potential, one side could easily get wiped out in a turn or two. I'd rather have this system:

Order of actions:
-Activate a unit
-use an action point for a retreat (Note: This must be the first action point the unit uses, a unit cannot attack and then flee combat)
-Both players make opposing CC checks to see if the retreating unit is caught (d6+CC Skill, ties catch the fleeing unit)i think just d6 would be far to random to let the survival of the unit depend on. rather use 2d6
-If the fleeing unit is caught, the whole unit is immediately removed (Note: the other unit does not consolidate or anything)
-If the fleeing unit escapes, then the unit must immediately move up to X" and end at least 1" away from all enemy models (Note: X is the unit's movement)
-The unit can now make actions as normal with its remaining action point.

eventhough i play 40k, i do not like the idea of a fleeing unit being killed off by one bad dice roll. (i.e. your DP sweeping advance equivalent) i would suggest that a unit that tries to escape combat has to take an exp./morale check. if it fails, it turns into a FLEE! move, and thus destroyed completely if it is caught. but if it makes it, they fail to escape and the combat continues.

This idea probably has tons of problems, but I think it's a good representation of the system I'd want. Again, I don't think the combats are going to be long enough to need combat resolution beyond one side voluntarily flees or getting wiped out.
quick number crunch:
two 5 man squads are in combat. they fight simultaneously. i'm not going to note down the numbers, but both kill 2 models from the enemy unit respectively. in later rounds of cambat, they both kill 0,5 models.

in other words: our combat isn't by far as deadly as we thought. we either need to change the mechanic slightly, or develop combat resolution.

Re: close combat RESOLUTION

Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:22 pm
by redryhno
What about a resolution where there is a die roll, or voluntarily leave combat, where the squad break up,and each go in a random(or chosen) direction and they each have to pass an initiative test(or something) to regroup so many inches away a turn later, and the winning squad can only go after some of them in a certain direction, or else they also have to break up into smaller groups(which requires some kind of test), which makes them more vulnerable because of the non-existent safety in number rule being in practice

Re: close combat RESOLUTION

Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 4:22 pm
by slaughtergames
i think there should always be an option to leave combat voluntarily, but how it is done is
1: rather off-topic (not that i mind, i'm glad for the input)
2: i think it's like half-discussed in another (old) thread.... *sigh* i guess i'll look it up and then post something here..

edited to add: alright, can't find the topic. :x / :cry: i really thought i saw that somewhere. we need somebody to come along who was in DP from the VERY start. i came in a bit later,so i don't know what was decided IF something was decided.