Area of Effect attacks

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Tmb
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Re: Area of Effect attacks

Post by Tmb » Fri Sep 02, 2011 11:54 pm

Animals will probably be worked on seperately later on, with everyones help to make them work, with out shooting.

But
2D6+Shooting Skill+ Number of Guys- Defense Of Enemy

I don't like that for scatter. That means the better you roll the farther you scatter...
So say you did the best role ever, with a squad of 5.

12+2+5-10=9"
Average
7+2+5-10=4"

But I feel I misinterpreted it anyways...
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Re: Area of Effect attacks

Post by Font » Sat Sep 03, 2011 12:11 am

well if its an AOE attack i'm assuming it'd be something to do with one person.

But we can always do the roll against the spread like this

Defence Skill : 2D6+Shooting Skill+ Number of guys in squad

the ratio is how far it'll scatter. and i'm also assuming this'd work best with 1 person.

10 : 12+2
10 : 14
.74
Mult by 2. Voila.

1.5 inches It'll be difficult unless we make a table, or use an easier method.

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Re: Area of Effect attacks

Post by saltinerunner45 » Sat Sep 03, 2011 12:34 am

Wiouds wrote:One problem with AoE is that the beasts would not have an AoE to speak of.
just because it may be difficult to think of good ideas dosent mean the animals wont have any.
perhaps if there is a subterranean creature, it could tell its buddies to dig in a specific area, causing the ground to give out below the enemy
maybe an animal can spit a huge ball of poison (ya i know this one was an original lol)
perhaps a bird-like unit has a very short range AoE attack where it will divebomb a target, showering it with its feces. when they come into contact with something, they break, and due to the oxygen in the air, combust


as for scatter, i like taking cover out of it, but (i may be getting too complex here) you would need direct LOS to your target area to do this. so say for example your opponent has a squad of 4. 2 are grouped in the center of cover, one model is off of them by a bit, but a single model was a straggler. you could choose to place your template just outside of cover and clip this model to avoid adding the cover to the roll, or you could aim for the 2 models that would be ducking behind cover, using the cover bonus for this roll.
.... probably too complex.
saltine runner thanks you for reading this post, and is sorry for his ramblings.
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DacoTrilar
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Re: Area of Effect attacks

Post by DacoTrilar » Sat Sep 03, 2011 1:47 am

Tmb wrote:Animals will probably be worked on seperately later on, with everyones help to make them work, with out shooting.

But
2D6+Shooting Skill+ Number of Guys- Defense Of Enemy

I don't like that for scatter. That means the better you roll the farther you scatter...
So say you did the best role ever, with a squad of 5.

12+2+5-10=9"
Average
7+2+5-10=4"

But I feel I misinterpreted it anyways...

I think I said it backwards. Basically, if you hit the unit then the AoE is a hit, but if you miss then you scatter a number of inches equal to the amount you missed by. So, using that equation the unit would hit on a 3+ on 2d6 (pretty likely).

12+2+5-10=9" HIT
7+2+5-10 = 4" HIT
2+2+5-10 = -1" Scatter 1"

Under this system AoE units would need much lower shooting skill to balance it, also since many would be solos it would balance out. Basically, I meant positive numbers are a hit and negative numbers scatter. Sorry for the confusion

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Re: Area of Effect attacks

Post by saltinerunner45 » Sat Sep 03, 2011 4:41 pm

what if you were just to switch the signs of everything?
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Re: Area of Effect attacks

Post by slaughtergames » Sun Sep 04, 2011 4:25 pm

let's just take the warmachine template people, it's easy and it works...
"i buy me new deffkopta!!"
"waaaagh!"
"i did research, to find out how to minimize the randomness of the shock-attack gun."
"huh?"
"waaaagh!"
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Re: Area of Effect attacks

Post by saltinerunner45 » Sun Sep 04, 2011 11:45 pm

sorry dont play warmachine, whats the template for that? is that where you roll a d6 and it tells you which direction your scattering in? i never liked having preset directions. makes it feel kinda lame IMO. also, i feel were borrowing a lot from warmachine. i think we could come up with a scatter system that is different without much trouble. that being said, if its not financially acceptable or it dosent work out on the table, we can always fall back on it.
saltine runner thanks you for reading this post, and is sorry for his ramblings.
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slaughtergames
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Re: Area of Effect attacks

Post by slaughtergames » Mon Sep 05, 2011 3:38 pm

DacoTrilar wrote:
12+2+5-10=9" HIT
7+2+5-10 = 4" HIT
2+2+5-10 = -1" Scatter 1"

Under this system AoE units would need much lower shooting skill to balance it, also since many would be solos it would balance out. Basically, I meant positive numbers are a hit and negative numbers scatter. Sorry for the confusion
i would say the unit has just one guy to chuck grenades. because in your example (see above) that +5 bonus for being with five guys is kinda weird.. like you have to coordinate that everybody hits the same spot and then it gives a BONUS?

and you said units would need a lower shooting skill to make it work.. if you have one guy who chucks grenades, he would only have a +1 bonus for being by himself, wich results in this:

12+2+1-10 = 4" = HIT
7+2+1-10 = -1" = SCATTER 1"
2+2+1-10 = -5" = SCATTER 5"

here we actually scatter a little more than we hit
(8+ on 2d6 = HIT / 7- on 2d6 = MISS)
but that would be fair, as your max. scatter is just 5"

2.)btw i'm not saying you would need a seperate model to chuck grenades, but you could just state in the rules that only one model is actually throwing a grenade.

3.)just off the top of my head (sorry this is getting long i know)
you might even say that every model has 1 grenade, so you could throw all of 'em on 1 turn and obliterate your opponent, but then you would have no more 'nades for the remainder of the game. whereas if you are nice and just throw one every turn, you have enough to last the entire game...
"i buy me new deffkopta!!"
"waaaagh!"
"i did research, to find out how to minimize the randomness of the shock-attack gun."
"huh?"
"waaaagh!"
"WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGH!!"

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Re: Area of Effect attacks

Post by Phatty » Mon Sep 05, 2011 5:26 pm

about where an AOE scatters. a nade would most likely have a circular scatter. but then a rocket type explosive, when that scatters, it would most likely scatter in a way it either overshoots or undershoots, not as much to the left or right.

i dont know how much two different scattering systems would work, but it is just something to think about

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Re: Area of Effect attacks

Post by DacoTrilar » Mon Sep 05, 2011 7:51 pm

slaughtergames wrote:
DacoTrilar wrote:
12+2+5-10=9" HIT
7+2+5-10 = 4" HIT
2+2+5-10 = -1" Scatter 1"

Under this system AoE units would need much lower shooting skill to balance it, also since many would be solos it would balance out. Basically, I meant positive numbers are a hit and negative numbers scatter. Sorry for the confusion
i would say the unit has just one guy to chuck grenades. because in your example (see above) that +5 bonus for being with five guys is kinda weird.. like you have to coordinate that everybody hits the same spot and then it gives a BONUS?

and you said units would need a lower shooting skill to make it work.. if you have one guy who chucks grenades, he would only have a +1 bonus for being by himself, wich results in this:

12+2+1-10 = 4" = HIT
7+2+1-10 = -1" = SCATTER 1"
2+2+1-10 = -5" = SCATTER 5"

here we actually scatter a little more than we hit
(8+ on 2d6 = HIT / 7- on 2d6 = MISS)
but that would be fair, as your max. scatter is just 5"

2.)btw i'm not saying you would need a seperate model to chuck grenades, but you could just state in the rules that only one model is actually throwing a grenade.

3.)just off the top of my head (sorry this is getting long i know)
you might even say that every model has 1 grenade, so you could throw all of 'em on 1 turn and obliterate your opponent, but then you would have no more 'nades for the remainder of the game. whereas if you are nice and just throw one every turn, you have enough to last the entire game...
My example of a grenade unit was a solo for that reason, but I think we should have rules for the situation where a whole unit shots their AoE attacks together resulting in a bombardment.

I like the idea of having a limited number of grenades, it provides a nice balanced solution to heavy cover for most units.

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Re: Area of Effect attacks

Post by spehktre » Mon Sep 05, 2011 10:43 pm

Wiouds wrote:One problem with AoE is that the beasts would not have an AoE to speak of.
That's not necessarily true. Beasts will have special abilities, which could certainly include this kind of thing.

Off the top of my head, the Beasts could "summon" or "call" a swarm of insects to attack, which could easily be treated as AOE. Actually, it would be better than normal AOE, because the insects would aim for the enemy and almost never miss.

Picture a black/yellow swarm of caustic wasps descending upon an enemy unit and stinging them to death/chewing them up. It would kind of be like AOE attacks with 99% accuracy. I don't think I'm the only one that think that would be bad butt.
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Re: Area of Effect attacks

Post by LLeRRoux » Mon Sep 05, 2011 10:49 pm

spehktre wrote:
Picture a black/yellow swarm of caustic wasps descending upon an enemy unit and stinging them to death/chewing them up. It would kind of be like AOE attacks with 99% accuracy. I don't think I'm the only one that think that would be bad butt.
I totally agree... Not to mention you could have a huge ape throw a massive boulder at the enemy :D

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Re: Area of Effect attacks

Post by LLeRRoux » Mon Sep 05, 2011 10:50 pm

spehktre wrote:
Picture a black/yellow swarm of caustic wasps descending upon an enemy unit and stinging them to death/chewing them up. It would kind of be like AOE attacks with 99% accuracy. I don't think I'm the only one that think that would be bad butt.
I totally agree... Not to mention you could have a huge ape throw a massive boulder at the enemy :D

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Re: Area of Effect attacks

Post by slaughtergames » Wed Sep 07, 2011 4:31 pm

DacoTrilar wrote:My example of a grenade unit was a solo for that reason, but I think we should have rules for the situation where a whole unit shots their AoE attacks together resulting in a bombardment.
well solos have enough shooting skill (about 6) to make up for being alone, so it would be like shooting with a bonus of five guys (see example below)

1 guy + 6 skill = 7
5 guys+ 2 skill = 7
slaughtergames wrote:.....but then a rocket type explosive, when that scatters, it would most likely scatter in a way it either overshoots or undershoots, not as much to the left or right.
on one side i agree with you on the rocket, but on the other hand, maybe they found a way (about 2000 years in the future lol) to fire it much like a bullet, pretty much hitting where you were aiming. even though if rockets are an AoE, that might be a little to strong..?
"i buy me new deffkopta!!"
"waaaagh!"
"i did research, to find out how to minimize the randomness of the shock-attack gun."
"huh?"
"waaaagh!"
"WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGH!!"

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Re: Area of Effect attacks

Post by slaughtergames » Fri Sep 09, 2011 4:12 pm

we might say that a rocket only scatters forward or backwards (away from/towards the shooter)

then a to hit roll of more than the needed roll would make the rocket overshoot by that many inches...

and a roll of less than the needed to hit roll would make it scatter back towards the firer by that many inches..

(example)
needed roll: 7 you roll 4, so it scatters 3" back towards the shooter (7-4 being 3)
needed roll: 8 you roll 10, so it overshooots 2"
"i buy me new deffkopta!!"
"waaaagh!"
"i did research, to find out how to minimize the randomness of the shock-attack gun."
"huh?"
"waaaagh!"
"WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGH!!"

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