Area of Effect attacks

[DacoTrilar]

I think that it would be a good idea to start thinking how we're going to deal with AoE attacks. We could simply have the shooter attack normally. If they score at least one hit then the AoE hits otherwise it scatters a number of inches equal to how much you missed by. I think using a scatter system similar to Warmachine is probably the best solution right now unless someone comes up with another way to do it. I think it would be best to avoid requiring special dice like Warhammer's scatter dice.

Example:
Grenadier

Squad size: 1
Movement: 6"
Shooting Skill: 6
Defense: 10
Armour: 6
Hit Points: 3
Gun Strength: 3
Gun Range: 12"
Rate of Fire: 1
Command: 8
Notes: Blast 3 - weapon uses a 3" diameter template

Grenadier vs tightly packed unit of 5 Soldiers in heavy cover

roll to hit:
7 [average roll] + 6 [skill] + 1 [unit size] = 14 - 16 [defense] = scatters 2"

2 soldiers covered by the template

roll to wound:

3 [Strength] - 5 [armor] = 2+ to wound * 2 = 1.66 kills




We could also include suppression if we wanted the AoE to be more effective.

[miniwargaming]

This is almost exactly what I was thinking.

The direction it scatters is the only question. I agree with not using a scatter die like Warhammer does (I think it's trademarked anyway), but a template like Warmachine would work fine.

[novakidx]

I like the idea of scatter die>template
even if I play warmachine I thought a scatter die would be cool,especially with a option to fail the shot

edit:to clarify
I'd rather roll 1 die and scatter X inches in a predetermined direction
example:catapult rolls 6 and flies 6 inches forward from target
grenade rolls 3 and flies 3 inches left from target
it depends on the weapon type and would be listed in weapon information

then you could use DP to manipulate gravity and change the direction or scatter distance

[saltinerunner45]

how difficult would it be to cast a spinner in addition to templates? all you would need is an arrow and the base. it would just point in the direction it needed to move toward, similar to a scatter die.
i dont know if this is feasible or not, just throwing out ideas

[novakidx]

that's a pretty good idea
especially if you can use it as a blast template too

[saltinerunner45]

thats not a bad idea nova. just to clarify thought, you wanted to use the blast template as on without the spinner on it correct? because if your holding it over a units head and spin it, it will be easy to skew the results of the spin.

[DacoTrilar]

Well, you could always spin it and then put it over the units; the spinner should pretty much stay still

[saltinerunner45]

and even if your opponent was to "coincidentally" tip it, you would know which way the arrow was pointing to begin with. i like it.
another question though. if we use this method, how would we know how far the scatter was, or if it was a direct hit for that matter? maybe we would roll 2d6 and scatter would be that number -2? that would be a lot of scattering thought....

[Tmb]

I think it should just be a D6 scatter, because an average of 7" is a bit far for scattering. or even d6-2

[Font]

I think it should just be a D6 scatter, because an average of 7" is a bit far for scattering. or even d6-2

Seems like that would make the average scatter about 2 inches, Not really scattering at all, What if we took a d6 and just left it, It leaves randomness, Allowing for wind, and so forth. and if Potential Energy can be modified then more power to it. But it won't go flying into uselessness either.

[saltinerunner45]

personally i like a bit of randomness like you font, but matt wants to remove randomness from the game, so we have to try our best in that aspect. 2d6 creates a bell curve, so it removes the randomness a bit, so i think we should stick with that if we can. the only thing im having trouble with is determining a good scatter distance...

[DacoTrilar]

The original idea was that the unit would attack and it would scatter a # of inches equal to the amount they missed by. So, you roll 2d6 + Shooting Skill + number of guys - Defense. You scatter by that much unless it's a negative number in which case you hit.

As for multiple AoEs in one attack, I think they should be treated similar to bombardment rules in 40k. So you place the first one and all the others are randomly (as judged by the spinner) placed touching the 1st AoE.

[novakidx]

matt wants to remove randomness from the game

I remember him saying that a bit of randomness was to be there
while tactics was the most important

[Wiouds]

One problem with AoE is that the beasts would not have an AoE to speak of.

[DacoTrilar]

One problem with AoE is that the beasts would not have an AoE to speak of.

Well, I get the feeling that the animals will require a lot of special rules to balance their lack of fire power. But I don't think that's something we should worry about for the core mechanics, we can always balance it out. Also, the animals will probably need fewer solutions to heavy cover, since they lack much, if any, firepower.