Stealth

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Korsarro-Khan
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Re: Stealth

Post by Korsarro-Khan » Sun Aug 28, 2011 9:56 am

i like the idea, i think multiple bases for the stealth unit is also good, however i do have a few thoughts

if the stealth tech is very low, then the "dummy bases" should be placed near the actual model i.e each bases (including real unit) must be placed with e.g 3" of another bases

if the tech is moderate, then that 3" could become say about 6- 10"

if the tech is very high then that distance increases even more

another idea is to not have any bases on the board at all. the player with the stealth unit creates a grid map, and plots the stealth unit's movement on the map. As soon as the unit gets within a range of an enemy unit, then the bases go on the table. If you gave some units an ability to detect stealth, then the amount of bases placed on the table could be reduced

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Re: Stealth

Post by farmerbrown » Sun Aug 28, 2011 1:04 pm

I really like Korsarro-Khan's idea. It makes sense.
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Re: Stealth

Post by Cow » Sun Aug 28, 2011 2:12 pm

I don't like the idea of having to map out a board. Sure, its not that hard to get a piece of paper and put a to-scale grid on it, but it seems more involving and interesting to have the invisi-bases. I believe you should always have a chance to detect stealth units, if its "Scotland Yard" style there is no chance to detect 'em.

Oh, but the idea about having it so the invisi-bases have to stay within a certain distance is great. Almost a must.
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Re: Stealth

Post by saltinerunner45 » Sun Aug 28, 2011 3:55 pm

i completely agree.
Solider 1 "what was that?"
Solider 2 "you heard that too?"
Solider 1 "ya, it came from over there" -general direction of markers-

just because their stealthed dosent mean that you cant hear or smell or even see the effects they have on things (footprints, snow outlines, moving branches/leaves). if we have something like unit coherency when stealthed, it would represent the above, as well as a nice mechanic.
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Re: Stealth

Post by Font » Sun Aug 28, 2011 7:20 pm

I believe instead of a "unit coherency" they were talking about stealth markers having to be within a foot or so of eachother. Because stealth can only confuse someone so much.

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Re: Stealth

Post by Wiouds » Sun Aug 28, 2011 9:32 pm

What about instead overwatch, we have ambush?

Ambush work like overwatch but you do not place the silly overwatch template down and the unit get a stealth bonus?

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Re: Stealth

Post by Cow » Sun Aug 28, 2011 9:52 pm

Silly? Was Metal Gear Solid silly? In fact, why don't we put little exclamation marks over the heads of our models!
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Re: Stealth

Post by Wiouds » Sun Aug 28, 2011 10:05 pm

Cow wrote:Silly? Was Metal Gear Solid silly? In fact, why don't we put little exclamation marks over the heads of our models!
If I am in a fox hole and told to wait for the enemy, I am not going to be looking 45 degree from the center of my sight but I will be turning my head while waiting.

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Re: Stealth

Post by saltinerunner45 » Sun Aug 28, 2011 11:05 pm

Font wrote:I believe instead of a "unit coherency" they were talking about stealth markers having to be within a foot or so of eachother. Because stealth can only confuse someone so much.
lol thats what i was talking about
all (most?) of the rules of unit coherency should apply, with the exception of the distance
sorry for the confusion

as for having an "!" above people that would be difficult.... instead, all of my stealthed models will be represented by boxes :mrgreen:
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Re: Stealth

Post by sonofkitrinos » Sun Aug 28, 2011 11:38 pm

TBH i dont like the decoy bases for a stealthed model. it makes no sense when tracking stealth. why would there be various bases to represent one miniature?he is not throwing his voice, or having other versions of himself walking around. machanically it sounds like it would be better suited for a unit with some form of holographic mirror imaging, but not a unit that is gone into stealth.

Perhaps the mechanic should be a radial plate, size depending on the tech level, to represent that there is a unit that is stealthed in that location. any enemy wishing to shoot/enter that area must make the required tests to see if it hits anythings. high the level smaller the radial.

Or, simply, the model is on board and in play, but receives major buffs to his defence stats, with the stealth tests but its movement is lowerd X% to indicate trying to be stealthy, that way you know where the model is and stealth itself is tracked as opposed to mirrored images. You can make stipulations in the rules that the opposing player is not aloud to make moves/actions against the stealthed unit until it is out of stealth - just to ensure the solo doesn't get singled out.

I get the idea behind the multiple bases, but again, it sounds more like mirror image than a model entering stealth.
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Re: Stealth

Post by Wiouds » Sun Aug 28, 2011 11:58 pm

I like stealth tokens since they are easier to deal radial plate.

Having the figure on the board would just take away from it and make it just some weak ideal.

I think of stealth tokens as the places the enemies think the stealth unit is.

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Re: Stealth

Post by sonofkitrinos » Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:06 am

Wiouds wrote:I like stealth tokens since they are easier to deal radial plate.

Having the figure on the board would just take away from it and make it just some weak ideal.

I think of stealth tokens as the places the enemies think the stealth unit is.
but you have to think of functionality in a real game setting, not just what sounds cool. it could prove to be that numerous tokens filtering about becomes too much house work, especially if matthew is trying to create a fast paced skirmish game. whereas a mini on the table that receives buffs for the skill, fits in with the overall concept of the game play much better and is streamlined a little bit better aswell.

yes the opponent knows where the stealthed unit, but is he going to want to waste a turn attempting to beat its buffs in shooting/melee when there are other units about that don't have such? it makes for better tactical thinking. yes you still get that with the tokens, but when trying to go fast paced, the tokens will ultimately bog the game down and become more of a hassle and no one will want to play stealthed units.

again, i like the concept of the tokens, but from what i know of the game, and of playing games, i just don't forsee it being a proper representation of stealth. i say save the idea for units that can duplicate their image to confuse the foe.
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Re: Stealth

Post by Wiouds » Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:12 am

The point of stealth is that your enemy does not have a strong clue where your unit is. With a radial plate they know the area that the unit is, and it worse if you just have it as a buff.

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Re: Stealth

Post by saltinerunner45 » Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:35 am

i gotta agree with wiouds and say tokens are the way to go
i think having something like +8DEF, + cover and -X movement will take longer to figure out than saying ok, this token here moves 6 inches.

although perhaps we could play it like a tyranid deathleaper with a few changes.
when cloaking replace the model with a marker. for every activation the unit gets, it may move up to its stealth value away from the marker.
so its first activation after going into "stealth mode" it can appear up to X" way from the marker, on turn 2 it would be 2X"
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Re: Stealth

Post by Wiouds » Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:40 am

I was thinking you have these outer bases that your model are put in. There outer base stand for what team they are on. The stealth tokens are just outer bases with number in them.

These outer bases should allow for the same models to be used by different teams and not worry about mixing up them.

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