Stealth

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Re: Stealth

Post by DacoTrilar » Mon Sep 12, 2011 3:46 pm

Phatty wrote:could a stealthed unit shoot at a target and remained stealthed as long as ALL of the decoy bases are within range of the target?
I like the idea, lets say if all the decoy bases shot at the same target then the unit immediately makes a boosted "spot check" to see if the hidden unit is revealed.

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Re: Stealth

Post by Korsarro-Khan » Tue Sep 13, 2011 6:59 am

Phatty wrote:could a stealthed unit shoot at a target and remained stealthed as long as ALL of the decoy bases are within range of the target?
if stealthed weapons were an available option, e.g. silencers and things like that, then i think it would be a good idea for the shooting unit to remained stealthed.

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Re: Stealth

Post by saltinerunner45 » Tue Sep 13, 2011 9:21 am

do you think cover would be reduced when shot at when your stealthed? i mean if you dont see anybody there probably not gonna be hugging cover, but if the markers represent where the enemy THINKS they would be, they would still be in cover.....
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Re: Stealth

Post by griffinthemad » Wed Sep 14, 2011 3:22 am

saltinerunner45 wrote:do you think cover would be reduced when shot at when your stealthed? i mean if you dont see anybody there probably not gonna be hugging cover, but if the markers represent where the enemy THINKS they would be, they would still be in cover.....
But, if you attack a stealth token and it is confirmed that token is the unit, you remove all the tokens and attack the token...? I'm pretty sure that is correct. If it isn't the unit it does nothing to attack it?
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Re: Stealth

Post by Cow » Wed Sep 14, 2011 10:56 pm

Cover, or maybe just raw defence is reduced, or perhaps a "Stealth Attack" bonus to hit is awarded. Kinda like some kind of critical strike or whatever.
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Re: Stealth

Post by griffinthemad » Thu Sep 15, 2011 3:47 am

Cow wrote:Cover, or maybe just raw defence is reduced, or perhaps a "Stealth Attack" bonus to hit is awarded. Kinda like some kind of critical strike or whatever.
So if you attack a random stealth token and it turns out that stealth token is the correct one, the stealthed unit being attacked is given a "stealth cover" or "stealth defense" bonus before being revealed? or after being revealed?
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Re: Stealth

Post by saltinerunner45 » Thu Sep 15, 2011 9:15 am

i was talking about when you shoot when stealthed originally.
as for this, i think it should be after the indicator is revealed. this would show the unit spotting something that they didnt think was natural and shot in the general direction of it
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Re: Stealth

Post by Cow » Sun Sep 18, 2011 12:16 am

griffinthemad wrote:
Cow wrote:Cover, or maybe just raw defence is reduced, or perhaps a "Stealth Attack" bonus to hit is awarded. Kinda like some kind of critical strike or whatever.
So if you attack a random stealth token and it turns out that stealth token is the correct one, the stealthed unit being attacked is given a "stealth cover" or "stealth defense" bonus before being revealed? or after being revealed?

No, I'm not talking about attacking a stealthed token. If a unit in stealth mode attacks any other unit, they should simply get a bonus to-hit. So its easier for them to hit their target because the unit under fire is caught unawares.
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Re: Stealth

Post by griffinthemad » Sun Sep 18, 2011 1:16 am

Oh, that makes more sense. yay :)
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Re: Stealth

Post by Thillidan » Sat Oct 15, 2011 12:56 am

ok. i havent read what other people have said but having counters means a player can still move tactically around ur markers as if his units assume the invisible person is there... i think it should be a place wherever u like

but each turn that he hides u make a check to see if an enemy spots him moving past... then if u fail that the opponant gets to place him (lets say) 12'' away from any enemy models, but wherever he likes... so in oter words he could place him in the open in firing range, as if the stealth guy was moving and got spotted in the open...

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Re: Stealth

Post by slaughtergames » Wed Oct 19, 2011 7:12 am

@thillidan:

1: i really do recommend reading the topic (or: "what other people have said") before posting a reply. it keeps a topic coherent.

2:"a place wherever you like" Matt has already stated that the marker-coherency would be very important. AND, i don't thinked stealthed models can go through impassible terrain, can they?

3: indeed the model makes a stealth check sometimes, but not EVERY turn lol... it's something you could have read in the topic IF you had read the topic.. :cry:

4: the enemy places the model wherever he likes when he discovers the stealth-model?? wow... :shock: i think that's a little to strong. and besides, one of the markers represents where the model is. if it get's discovered, all the fakes are removed, and your opponent now knows which one is real. no need to move it around and such... it wouldn't even be logical...
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Re: Stealth

Post by Grandpapanurgle » Fri Jan 27, 2012 2:38 pm

My gaming group and I have tested our own skirmish game, and we at first attempted to use the token method for stealth as well.
For us anyways on paper this was a great concept, but in play testing it we found it to be unbalancing and hard to determine a set "cost/point value for. The problems that we had:

1) stealth was only available on smaller single model units which kept it at top 2-3 units in a battle but with each having 3 markers, they became more of a threat marker that caused disorganization and tactical issues. A small grouping of markers represented enough potential threat that they couldn't be ignored, leading to to much time being spent eliminating markers or or forces barricading themselves in until the correct threat was determined. While there is only 2-3 actual models out there because it could be any of them, they might as well have been 6-9 models,

2) because they could be used so effectively to bog down gameplay a lot of time was taken in positioning them correctly slowing down things significantly.

3) sometime even their own players would lose track of which was the correct model. Seems a silly thing but it happened every now and then.


What we ended up doing that worked for us was the model with stealth was placed on the board and moved as normal, he had a stealth rating and had to be spotted before he could be fired upon.

So a model that could draw line of sight to him would make a roll based on his awareness - the stealth rating, if failed the firing model had wasted his firing action and could not fire on his activation. This lead to any easier balance for us as the less aware troopers would generally ignore stealth models, as it was unlikely they would see him anyway. Where as more aware unit would be used to flush them out.

There were several modifiers that could change the roll including range etc.

Intially this lead to troop running up to him when they could see him. So to counter this. We add the rule that once a model is spotted he must be revealed in any location within 5' of the models location, which we felt represented nice that you had tracked him down to a general area and then heard him crumbling rock etc.

This lead to a change in tactics to encircling stealth units which felt like a reasonable real world solution to finding someone Ina general area.

Other rules about stealth that I don't recall entirely as I am not a my computer were:

Stealth unit must reveal it location before firing.
Stealth units could make a 5' melee Attack from stealth that gave bonuses to hit and power, them the model was placed in the location but does not lose it stealth. The defending model gets a spot check before the attack which can negate the stealth bonuses for the attack, if he survives the attack the attacker is automatically spotted

Models within 4 of the melee Attack get a chance to spot with good bonuses. Revealing the attacker. Making it risky, althought great fun to see if you can pick off a straggler.

We also introduced equipment and units that Designed for hunting stealth units too like thermal gear, tracking skills and dogs ( near future dog like equivalents)

Anyways just my two cents from someone that has playtested your concept, althought the systems were different.
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Re: Stealth

Post by DacoTrilar » Sun Jan 29, 2012 12:51 am

@Grandpapanurgle
I like your new system, and was actually just about to suggest something similar. As you said, multiple bases can easily slow down the game a lot as the stealth player wants to give the same amount of attention to each base.

Stealth Rule: Unit must be "discovered" before they can be shot at, which requires an action by an enemy unit. Once discovered, move the unit anywhere X" from its current position.

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Re: Stealth

Post by Wiouds » Sun Jan 29, 2012 11:02 am

For my play tests I added the ability called stealth(#/#/#)

the first number is the number of stealth tokens they get. The second number is reduction to a squad's command when it tries to spot them. The last number is for the mp stats.

So if the stealth(3/1/6)
This mean the squad when it goes into stealth get three tokens.
If a squad want to do a check on a stealth token they need to do a command check but they need roll a number one better than what they normally need to.
Each token can use six mp to move.


So if the stealth(4/2/4)
This mean the squad when it goes into stealth get four tokens.
If a squad want to do a check on a stealth token they need to do a command check but they need roll a number two better than what they normally need to.
Each token can use four mp to move.

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Re: Stealth

Post by Grandpapanurgle » Tue Jan 31, 2012 7:11 pm

Thanks our system is more complicated then Matt wants to go i think, but ours will probably never see the light of day beyond our immediate group so glad to see someone get some use out of it.

As it turns out we start learning infinity this week and it seems very similar so we will never finish it anyways.
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