0.4.1 Experiments in List Building

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cymruvoodoo
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0.4.1 Experiments in List Building

Post by cymruvoodoo » Thu Sep 20, 2012 10:21 pm

Just like it says on the tin, this is a series of experiments in list building that I thought I'd bounce off the forum to try and spark some conversation and see if, in trying to build and tweak lists, we can come up with any holes that look exploitable or gaps that need filling. I am also going to do some list building with the restriction that I will only use the contents of two starter packs, since the starter pack plus army is a popular thing to use to show new players the game.

Let's start there, shall we? Simple rules - I'm building these lists only with the physical contents of two box sets, assuming no conversions on the part of the player. What points level works there? What combinations can be made?

PMC Double Box List

Director - 90

Recruit Squad - 30
Add Smoke +5

Recruit Squad - 30
Add Smoke +5

Sniper - 50
Add Grav Pack +5

Sniper - 50
Add Grav Pack +5

HWS - 40

HWS - 40

Total - 350 points

It's pretty straightforward, you take every model but the duplicate commander, buy a few of the upgrades and it comes out very even. If you need to get to 400 points, buying the extra CP, the gravity mines, the smoke, and the knife upgrade for the Director will get you close enough for government work. On one hand, it's nice to see the contents of the boxes work out so neatly here - the list is flexible, encourages a combined arms approach, and has a good amount of numbers. If you want to mix it up, the Recruits can be combined into one large squad for CP efficiency. That does drop ten points off the total, meaning you can squeeze the gravity mine and smoke grenades on the director at 350 points, or make space for something else, like a Surveyor, at 400. On the other hand, it's quite a stretch to simply take every model and say "okay, this is my list. Keeping it lower - 250, 300 points - will force the player to make some choices. Off the top of my head, dropping a sniper looks like a sensible choice to make a tidy 300 point list.


X'Lanthos Double Box List

Commander - 100
Add Gravity Mine - 5

Soldier Squad - 60
Add Gravity Mine - 5

Soldier Squad - 80

Assassin - 40
Add Phase Shifter - 10

Assassin - 40
Add Phase Shifter - 10

Total: 350 points

This list is a little bit less straightforward, you get the option to run two even squads or do as I've done and unbalance them slightly. I think this is a more sound list as you load up one squad for shooting duties and then give the others escort duty on the commander. The Phase Shifters on the assassins are pretty much not an option. The additional mobility is required if there's any way to take them. I think if you drop this list to 300 there are a few ways to get that, either by dropping the mines and the short X'Lanthos squad or dropping an assassin. Both options will leave an interesting result. Getting down to 250 points is also not difficult but at that point you are essentially playing with a slightly beefed up single starter box.


Reclaimer Double Box Set

Captain - 100
Add Grav Pack - 5

Reclaimers Squad - 100
Add Grav Packs - 5
Add Flash Grenades - 5

Forward Observer - 30
Add Grav Pack - 5

Redeemer - 50

Redeemer - 50

Total: 350 points

This list is quite interesting. The elite costs of the Reclaimers across the board means that loading up one full squad is more cost effective than splitting to two smaller squads even if the smaller squads mean that more men hit the table in total. Shaving those points to get the grav packs across the board is valuable as that will substantially augment the force's mobility. Dropping to 250, 300 points would mean playing with the contents of a single box with a few extra trinkets.


My takeaway from this is that for starter box games, 250 points is a good level. It's a bit of a stretch for the PMC but I think that's just the way it's going to be there. For two boxes, 350 points looks right. 400 points is too much of a "take everything" level and does not force enough decisions on the players.

Now, for the experimental lists. They are all built to 500 points and I offer them at this point without comment. I think it will create better discussion to have the lists here without strategy and invite comment on counters, ways you would use these lists, and possible weaknesses.

PMC

Director - 90
Add Additional CP - 25

Recruiter - 40

Recruiter - 40

Recruit Squad - 50
Add Smoke- 5

Corporate Agents - 70
Add Smoke - 5

Sniper - 50
Add Gravity Pack - 5

Heavy Weapons Specialist - 40
Swap for Portable Machine Gun

Heavy Weapons Specialist - 40
Swap for Portable Machine Gun

Technician - 10
Add Machine Gun Emplacement - 15
Add Machine Gun Emplacement - 15

Total: 500 points


X'Lanthos

Commander - 100
Add Gravity Mines - 5

Manipulator - 50
Add Dark Shield Generator - 10
Add Gravity Mines - 5

Soldiers - 100
Add Gravity Mines - 5

Soldiers - 100
Add Gravity Mines - 5

Lurkers - 70

Assassin - 40
Add Phase Field Generator - 10

Total: 500 points


Reclaimers

Captain - 100
Add Gravity Pack - 5
Add Flash Grenades - 5

Warden - 40
Add Flash Grenades - 5

Warden - 40
Add Flash Grenades - 5

Reclaimers Squad - 95
Add Grav Packs - 5
Add Flash Grenades - 5

Drop Guard - 100
Add Grav Packs - 5
Add Flash Grenades - 5

Field Platform Team - 55
Swap for Harasser Artillery Platform

Forward Observer - 30

Total: 500 points

Lumipon
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Re: 0.4.1 Experiments in List Building

Post by Lumipon » Fri Sep 21, 2012 8:39 am

cymruvoodoo wrote:Now, for the experimental lists. They are all built to 500 points and I offer them at this point without comment. I think it will create better discussion to have the lists here without strategy and invite comment on counters, ways you would use these lists, and possible weaknesses.

PMC

Director - 90
Add Additional CP - 25

Recruiter - 40

Recruiter - 40

Recruit Squad - 50
Add Smoke- 5

Corporate Agents - 70
Add Smoke - 5

Sniper - 50
Add Gravity Pack - 5

Heavy Weapons Specialist - 40
Swap for Portable Machine Gun

Heavy Weapons Specialist - 40
Swap for Portable Machine Gun

Technician - 10
Add Machine Gun Emplacement - 15
Add Machine Gun Emplacement - 15

Total: 500 points
An interesting list. Rather slow in its feet, though. Turrets are immobile, snipers need to stand and shoot and HWS are the most effective when stationary.

So a highly mobile list would be equally annoying to deal with, I'd wager. Though that depends on the scenario in question.

I'd probably pair the Director with the Agents for the huge amount of CP and ranged goodness. And one Recruiter with the Recruits and other with the HWSes to boost morale and give CP.
X'Lanthos

Commander - 100
Add Gravity Mines - 5

Manipulator - 50
Add Dark Shield Generator - 10
Add Gravity Mines - 5

Soldiers - 100
Add Gravity Mines - 5

Soldiers - 100
Add Gravity Mines - 5

Lurkers - 70

Assassin - 40
Add Phase Field Generator - 10

Total: 500 points
Oh, the stealth :D

Seems super annoying to deal with mass stealth. Need to use actions and possibly CP to target them efficiently. The huge amount of gravity mines and the Dark Manipulator would offer interesting options if you want to limit the movement or sap the defence of the opponent.

I would probably flank the Lurkers and the Assassin from either side, to force my opponent to divide his troops/spend actions to force a reveal. Cause if that Assassin gets too close... (Muahahaa!)

And if he does divide his troops, I'll just drill the weaker side untill it cracks!
Reclaimers

Captain - 100
Add Gravity Pack - 5
Add Flash Grenades - 5

Warden - 40
Add Flash Grenades - 5

Warden - 40
Add Flash Grenades - 5

Reclaimers Squad - 95
Add Grav Packs - 5
Add Flash Grenades - 5

Drop Guard - 100
Add Grav Packs - 5
Add Flash Grenades - 5

Field Platform Team - 55
Swap for Harasser Artillery Platform

Forward Observer - 30

Total: 500 points
[/quote]

I have mixed feelings about this list.

The Forward Obs. and Harasser Artillery Platform have obvious synergy and the Reclaimer Reclaimers definitely need the Captain to keep them company, that much is obvious...

But then we have the Drop Guard and the Warden. With their awesome jetpacks the DG could easily flank almost any opponent. Probably best used to take down lone solos or weak squads.

And the Warden are mehh... A spray weapon but no Grav Packs to help traverse terrain? They do have a super high Ar to help with small arms-fire, so that's a plus. BUt with enough CP and volume of fire, I wager these guys will go down real easy.

I should probably use them this weekend.

Crazy9
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Re: 0.4.1 Experiments in List Building

Post by Crazy9 » Fri Sep 21, 2012 8:46 am

on the PMC list i can't think up much to say the technician dosn't look to paly any importent role other than adding a few extra st6 attack to the party and seens they have no preseption cant go on over wacth and have to shot the closes enemy uint seem to "dume" for your list thats filed with "smart" units that can move shoot and think the HWS all i can say is agenst your X'lanthous list you might want to change won to a flame lancher but idigres
X'lanthouse list cant say much here ether see a trend gravity mines on the manipulater seems like filler, and lukers cost alot but what eles would you have spent the 30 ( I think) extra points on sence targeting is so ulefull might as well give them the extra surviableity
reclamers cant say much here becuse thier new

cymruvoodoo
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Posts: 478
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Re: 0.4.1 Experiments in List Building

Post by cymruvoodoo » Sat Sep 22, 2012 8:43 am

@ Crazy9 - that's a very fair catch. I need to strip that gravity mine off of the Manipulator and upgrade the Commander to have X'Lanthos Gravitic Mines. The only point I can see for giving the manipulator some Gravity Mines is on the off chance that you need to use him for cover in a situation where it would be dangerous to activate his dark manipulator. That's a lot of "if" there.

@ Lumpion - Good comments all. I think calling the PMC "slow" is a touch unfair. I think the faction's overall feel promotes a "do what you do best" style on the tabletop and, for example, leaving the loner Sniper off to do his thing doesn't really slow down the advance of the force as a whole. Similarly, the emplacements are appropriately costed for the fact that they are immobile, I feel. Dropping them into position can really only help as long as you keep the technician with the forward elements. He can support the recruits or the corporate agents and in either case you've got a block of infantry with smoke, fairly significant firepower, and then that extra dose of "keep away" firepower plus a spotter (the technician) to make perception checks. This becomes especially relevant if they are rushing towards an objective.

As for the reclaimers, I agree that the wardens are not really an obvious thing to fit in - I halfway think a good use for them might be to use them as perimeter guards for the artillery platform and feed the platform and the observer both all the CP they can chow on. I think my answer to how the rest gets used would be to say that the drop guard and reclaimers should both work up the same flank for a fast overload/mismatch and try to either roll the line or flush the line into the artillery support.

Anyway, let's see some other lists! If you all saw these lists or variations thereof in your local meta, how would you build to take them on, say for a tournament or a club night?

AkimboJonesx21
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Re: 0.4.1 Experiments in List Building

Post by AkimboJonesx21 » Mon Sep 24, 2012 6:39 am

I believe I have a few effective 350 points lists.

PMC 350 Pt.

Director - 90
Add Smoke Grenades +5

Recruiter - 40
Add Smoke Grenades +5

Corporate Agents(3) - 40
Add Grunt(1) +10
Add Smoke Grenades +5

Corporate Agents(3) - 40
Add Grunt(1) +10
Add Smoke Grenades +5

Medic - 25

Medic - 25

Surveyor - 20
Add Smoke Grenades +5

Surveyor - 20
Add Smoke Grenades +5

The main meat of this list is the Corporate Agents. There job is to get as close as they can for the maximum amount of fire possible. The Director and Recruiter is to shove as many Command Points possible to achieve instant carnage. The Medics are there to keep the Corporate Agents alive and shooting, and the Commanders shoving Command Points out there for the Agents. The Surveyors are there to lower the Defense of units, with Targeting, for more hits.

PMC 350 Pt.

Director - 90
Add Smoke Grenades +5

Sniper - 50
Grav Pack +5

Sniper - 50
Grav Pack +5

Heavy Weapons Specialist - 40

Heavy Weapons Specialist - 40
Portable Machine Gun - Free

Heavy Weapons Specialist - 40
Portable Machine Gun - Free

Surveyor - 20
Add Smoke Grenades +5

This is the poor mans list who wants maximum efficiency for low price costs. With only seven units, every unit is precious. The Snipers are to stay back and get in the best position to kill multi wound models. The Heavy Weapon Specialists are the bane of any squad on the tabletop, with dangerous AOE flame templates and RoF 4 weapons . The Director is to shove Command Points to the Heavy Weapon Specialists for maximum carnage. The Surveyor id to lesson the Defense for better places Sniper shots.

X'Lanthos 350 Pt.

Commander - 100
Add X'Lanthos Gravitic Mine +10

Manipulator - 50
Add Dark Shield Generator + 10

X'Lanthos Soldiers(4) - 60
Add Grunt (1) + 10
Add Gravity Mines + 5

X'Lanthos Soldiers(4) - 60
Add Gravity Mines +5

Guardian - 50

The main concept of this army is Solos playing off each other. The combination of the Commander, Manipulator, and Guardian works well. The Manipulator can move units closer to the other units. The Guardian then can use Attraction to move them into a more central position, and finally the Commander can use his Electron Masser to eradicate all that remains. The Soldiers work Well in this combination because of their high Ranger Attack, needing few Command Points to do their job.

X'Lanthos 350 Pt.

Manipulator - 50
Add Dark Shield Generator + 10

Shock Troops(3) - 50
Add Grunt(1) + 10
Add Gravity Mines + 5

Shock Troops(3) - 50
Add Grunt(1) + 10
Add Gravity Mines + 5

Lurkers(2) - 40
Add Grunt(1) + 15
Add Gravity Mines +5

Assassin - 40
Add Phase Field Generator + 10

Assassin - 40
Add Phase Field Generator +10

Two words; Defensive Speed. This list works well with great positioning. The Shock Troops are the main units in this list. The Manipulator is there to feed them Command Points and to pull enemy units closer for the onslaught of spray templates. The Lurkers are to lower the enemy's Defense for easier damage. The Assassins work as slaughterers of Multi Wound units and Squads. They also work well as retard magnets for the Shock Troops. Also stealth mind games work well because of the maximum of eight stealth bases on the field at once.

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