forgive the funky pic :D

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slaughtergames
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forgive the funky pic :D

Post by slaughtergames » Tue Jun 26, 2012 10:17 am

hey guys, i had a funny idea for a PMC / Bandit unit

they're basically a bicycle team. a dude that gives them mobility, and one with a gun:

Image

i feel i must apologize for my foto-editing skills though :D

i'd see them being fielded in squads of, say, three teams, 'cause this would make for a wierd 'solo' :D

to throw down some stats:
Mv 9 Df 3 Ar 2 St 3 At 2 RA 12 CC 11 Pr 7 Mr 8 Wo 2

it would be a single model.
could possibly be upgraded with scouts. If the unit stands still, the 'driver' could also fire a weapon, basically doubling the amount of shots (double squad bonus?).

thoughts? i can completely understand if you don't like it, but i thought i'd put it up here :D
"i buy me new deffkopta!!"
"waaaagh!"
"i did research, to find out how to minimize the randomness of the shock-attack gun."
"huh?"
"waaaagh!"
"WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGH!!"

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Re: forgive the funky pic :D

Post by Pheonix » Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:56 am

this made me giggle, but all in all it is a very usable but fun idea. i think it could work well, i'd rather see some sort of adjustment to the bike rather that my nan's pink Raleigh with a Kalashnikov on the back. my only problem is that this seems more like something an insurgent would use rather than a bandit. although it fits well into the scanvanger, recycling theme it seems too 'cobbled together' or improvised for a precise hit and run (or cycle) raiding party, slightly in-practical for long distance.

just my thoughts.

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Re: forgive the funky pic :D

Post by Cow » Tue Jun 26, 2012 10:28 pm

Yes, a bike team like that would be pretty great.

But, are we going to just have one stat line for units like this?
Are we not going to try to look at this a bit differently and say okay, there are 2 people and a vehicle on here. That is three seperate things all in one target. Can we not make some (relatively) simple rules and say any shots that hit that unit are distributed randomly? In this case a D3. Even in a unit of more than one of these models. After choosing what wounds go to what models, roll a D3 for every wound inflicted to determine what part of the model gets hit. Wounds (or effects) from AoEs are applied to all parts of the model. The lack of wounds in one part renders that part's function useless.

2 operators and 1 vehicle. The vehicle may be used by any one of the operators once during its activation. If an operator does so, it may not take any other action, unless it is another use of the vehicle. The vehicle may be used as a move action as well. Obviously in this case, the vehicle will primarily be used for moving, unless you want it to be equipped with some sort of mine despenser, mounted gun, or some other cool gadget. Assuming an operator has not chosen to use the vehicle as its action, it is free to do other actions as normal. Perhaps it wont be allowed to move though, as they need to stay on the bike unless they are ditching it.

So you see, with the rules above, you could do all you inteded it to do, but with more versatile rules, and can open the door to other types of vehicles too. Perhaps ones with more interfaces, so one operator can drive while the other one scans the area with radar, or fires a mounted gun!

Is none of this sounding abosolutely exciting!?
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Re: forgive the funky pic :D

Post by IGfanatic » Tue Jun 26, 2012 10:35 pm

Im pretty sure in WWII some men did this in combat...urban of coarse.
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Re: forgive the funky pic :D

Post by BewareOfTom » Tue Jun 26, 2012 10:47 pm

I think this'd be better for either a side car thing or on a tandem bike :P
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Re: forgive the funky pic :D

Post by dragon1010 » Wed Jun 27, 2012 12:47 am

im liking the idea and it sounds like a lot of fun. rules wise if we used cow's idea it would work better as a solo because if it was a unit and a bike got destroyed would the new footsloggers get left behind? it would be more smooth as a solo, and add a nice tactical element to the owning player.
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Re: forgive the funky pic :D

Post by Roscoe » Wed Jun 27, 2012 6:41 am

This would make a fun model but do you think people would actually buy a miniature like this?

Are we going to have a bit of comic relief in Dark Potential? It works for 40k with Orcs but will it work for a game like DP?

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Re: forgive the funky pic :D

Post by slaughtergames » Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:52 pm

it's funny that you guys are jumping into special rules now - we had another discussion last week or so, where we concluded that if we wanted any vehicles at all, we'd take bikes, but we wouldn't add special rules - just reflect the bikeyness in the stats...
though that isn't to say that i'm against special rules! i'd love that!

oh, and by any means, it could be a motorcycle, it's just that i found a picture of a normal bike :)

@ cow: so you'd suggest giving the bike an Ar and a Wo value? i'd think it's pretty hard to hit the bike. hitting the wheels or the frame is quite lucky, and not very effective. i'd rather see the bike ignored for purposes of shooting, and just have either of the 'operators' killed...

mechanic-wise, i think it's best if the bike is a piece of wargear. you basically have a model (which, in-game is both guys), and then the bike
-doubles movement (except in terrain)
-takes one of two models to 'drive'; if you move, only half the models get an action.
-could carry awesome equipment.
-other suggestions?
"i buy me new deffkopta!!"
"waaaagh!"
"i did research, to find out how to minimize the randomness of the shock-attack gun."
"huh?"
"waaaagh!"
"WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGH!!"

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Re: forgive the funky pic :D

Post by Roscoe » Wed Jun 27, 2012 5:34 pm

Ahh well in that case I would just prefer a model thats a lone guy on a motorbike I think it would make a cooler mini but thats just me.

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Re: forgive the funky pic :D

Post by Cow » Wed Jun 27, 2012 10:43 pm

I assumed it was supposed to be a motor bike from the get-go, a pedal bike could work, but ... not that well.

Ya, I can see that working, the bike just being a piece of equipment. But you said "if you move, only half the models get an aciton," Though I sorta see what you are trying to accomplish with that statement, it just sounds too wishy-washy for me. Just doesn't sit right with me. Oh wait, and you also said it takes one of two models to drive. Didn't you say just above that that each model is both riders in-game? Getting a little confused here.

I wasn't suggesting the bike would have Ar and Wo values, but I was suggesting they didn't either. It would already need a movement stat (for my rule idea that is) so more stats would be acceptable. However I think I did say that you determine what inflicted wounds go to whom/what. I was originally thinking you'd have rolled to wound first. All models in the unit have the same stats after all. I guess except I did say the bike have a different move stat.

Well, all in all, I can see not having the vehicle be targetable being the way to go. And thus no need to randomize between the two operators as they have the same function.

BUT

Howabout we leave it with this:
May I propose a new Universal Special Rule? Call it Multiple Entities, or Swarm or whatever. Here's the dealio:

Each model with the Multiple Parts rule counts as actually being the number of models as it has wounds. These models are all represented by the one model though, and so must occupy the same space. Under no circumstances may they seperate, you know, to save the sanity of the players.

If this model takes a wound, it loses one virtual model. Hopefully this makes sense to some of you folks.
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Re: forgive the funky pic :D

Post by dragon1010 » Thu Jun 28, 2012 12:51 am

that makes sense. its like saying this bike model has two operators, and two possible things to do: drive, or shoot. so lets say that the model takes a wound. does that mean it would only then be able to drive or shoot? (this may not be the exact case just using it as a reference)
armies i play: tyranids (14000 pts), marines (4000 pts) orks (1750 pts) eldar (4000 pts) ig (3000 pts) lizardmen (2500 pts) high elves (3000 pts) cryx (100 pts) blindwater congregation (50 pts) trollbloods (25 pts) Legion of Everblight (50 pts)

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Re: forgive the funky pic :D

Post by slaughtergames » Sun Jul 01, 2012 4:57 pm

aargh! i understand what you're getting at with multiple entities, but i feel it needs better wording, but i can't come up with it!

basically, we have (statwise) a conjoined twin, sharing a motorcycle.
what we have to explain to the player is that they are two independent people, but conjoined BECAUSE of the motorcycle.... or something like that
"i buy me new deffkopta!!"
"waaaagh!"
"i did research, to find out how to minimize the randomness of the shock-attack gun."
"huh?"
"waaaagh!"
"WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGH!!"

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Cow
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Re: forgive the funky pic :D

Post by Cow » Sun Jul 01, 2012 5:37 pm

No no, not because of the motor cycle.

The bike is just gear like any other. And each model in the unit has the Swarm (or Multiple Entities) special rule.

Surely the animal faction should have some Swarm units. A flock of Ravens: A stat line of some sort like any other unit, but set the stat line up as if there was just one raven. So fairly low stats (0 armour, 1 or 2 strength, skills all at around 5), but decent defense as it is a small-ish flying animal.

But change the wounds to represent the number of single wound ravens in each model. Let's say 5. Then give it the Swarm rule mentioned above. Then the unit would not be a solo, but a squad. So start with 3 models add extra up to max 6. So at three models with the Swarm special rule, it would actually count as 15 virtual models! 5 virtual models per actual model.

See? No bike required.
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slaughtergames
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Re: forgive the funky pic :D

Post by slaughtergames » Mon Jul 02, 2012 11:27 am

yeah alright, we don't want birds riding bikes :)

so it should probably be
'Rate of Fire and Attacks of these models are multiplied by their wounds'

so if the ravenswarm model has 1 attack, a base with 5 wounds (=5 ravens) would have 5 attacks, and if it takes a wound (a raven gets killed) it only has 4 attacks.

permission to feel smart?
"i buy me new deffkopta!!"
"waaaagh!"
"i did research, to find out how to minimize the randomness of the shock-attack gun."
"huh?"
"waaaagh!"
"WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGH!!"

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Re: forgive the funky pic :D

Post by Pheonix » Mon Jul 02, 2012 2:15 pm

slaughtergames wrote:permission to feel smart?
granted

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