what motivates salvagers and why do we care?

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LepperGod
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what motivates salvagers and why do we care?

Post by LepperGod » Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:10 pm

i am not trying to sound negative or crass. I am trying to figure out the motivation for the salvagers. i have read a little of their back ground but i do not feel that walking about looking for trash is a very worthy factional motivation.

i understand the salvagers are uncaring machines. i know that in the real world machines do as they are told and that is that. but for the sake of science fiction we need to have more of a motivation then, me want trash. me take. you try to stop me. i kill you. that is great and would work for a while but in a war-gamer we need both defensive and offensive reasons for our armies to clash.

okay. i know this goes against the grain and does not mesh with the current thinking behind the salvagers but what if, on top of salvaging, the salvagers also had a another prerogative. what if their initial recycling program had gotten perverted or corrupted and somehow mixed with an automated building program that was also in the world pre-virus? this could add dynamic to the story.

environmental. the new salvagers would build cities. endlessly expending resources to rebuild the cities of yore. it would begin to once more return the earth to a polluted concrete jungle but this time populated by automatic unmanned vehicles and such, cycling endlessly through a program that is but computer memory of bygone days.

the unattainable other factions would look in on the cities and envy the salvagers. they would recognize the potential of living in what appears to be a safe city but upon approaching the salvagers would turn on the the intruders as the salvagers would no longer recognize the humans as anything but an interruption.

unquenchable. the salvagers would drain the resources in each given area in an attempt to rebuild the past. the salvagers could still look like hodgepodge constructs as they could have a (world war) soviet feel to them, using all the resources on the cities it wants to rebuild and the scraps on those that go and get the bits and pieces it cannot manufacture. or even the cities themselves could be but hollow shells, ghosts, if you will of what they once more and could be just as shoddy and scrap built as the salvager gathering machines.

mindless. just like the original idea the haussner gene should only be used in a few of the more complicated machines that do the processing for all of the rest.

all of this could allow for a dynamic faction that doesn't only act like ants gathering, and only reacting as they are attacked when they move in on the territory of others, but also as a territory threatening, self protecting and possibly a learning machine that is hell bent on rebuilding the known world and letting the fruits of its labor rot under the smog shrouded sun that beats endlessly down upon a world that is chaotic and unforgiving.
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LepperGod
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Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2012 1:41 pm

Re: what motivates salvagers and why do we care?

Post by LepperGod » Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:15 pm

What motivates the salvagers?
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BobofDoom
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Re: what motivates salvagers and why do we care?

Post by BobofDoom » Thu Apr 26, 2012 12:30 am

I just started a new discussion to try to answer this question as well as flesh out how the entire faction works. I think it would be interesting if what motivates the salvagers is the need to answer 1 question. When the reclaimers turned them on, they asked how to cure the virus. Since then the CSU has been trying to answer it but has come up short.

LepperGod
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Re: what motivates salvagers and why do we care?

Post by LepperGod » Fri Apr 27, 2012 8:57 am

its an interesting idea Bobofdoom!

in one thread by mathew he stated that he wants to stay away from conscious machines. i also think he wants their primary perogative to salvage what was.

my idea allows for both. they can salvage and rebuild at the same time. It is simply a computer program enacting its initial perogative, albeit in a corrupted manner. The computer system could still stumble upon an ancient military base to get the weapon tech. and since they were never designed for military use and the information available at the military base is highly incripted they are slowly learning how to use the military gear for themselves.

in the meantime the Automind is working hard to build the cities. the automind is rebuilding the cities not because they care but because that is how their program is written.
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BobofDoom
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Re: what motivates salvagers and why do we care?

Post by BobofDoom » Sat Apr 28, 2012 4:02 pm

Well if the machines aren't controlled by something conscious than there is no point in having the salvagers as a playable race. The reason is simple: conscious allows for problem recognition. As it stands without a machine that has consciousness than no machine can have a Haussmann gene. Unless programmed in the machines would not battle, and they would never have weapon tech because they would not try to communicate with another computer. They would simply break it down for parts.

As for your idea, its interesting. But why would the machines look at the humans or X'Lanthos as an interruption? A building program would have human recognition in it, the recycle program would have human recognition in it. Both would basically say: if its living avoid it. You would have to put the military program in it as well identifying living creatures as pests to be destroyed.

Remember the Haussmann gene is not artificial intelligence. Its the capability to reason and you have yet put forth a reason before the military program got involved that any salvager needs to reason.

If you are having difficulty understanding where I am coming from, think of Watson the computer that won Jeopardy. It could answer questions but never formulate questions. With current technology it cannot look at a situation and come up with what the problem is and the solution to it without help. It could with the Hausmann gene because the capability to reason and imagine is a sign of consciousness.

Also without consciousness the machine can't learn. It has set techniques in its memory and it would always try to use those techniques in battle. It would lead to very boring games because the player would be restricted to each action he or she could take. There'd be a giant flow chart to dictate what the salvagers could do in a situation.

TL/DR: CONSCIOUSNESS IS A MUST IN ANY PLAYABLE FACTION IN ANY GAME

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