Animal Faction Discussion

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Should Animals have a Queen Mother?

Poll ended at Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:00 pm

Yes
5
29%
No
12
71%
 
Total votes: 17

LepperGod
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Re: Animal Faction Discussion

Post by LepperGod » Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:31 pm

Sorry about my last post. i am using a phone and i am not adept with it yet.

where was i. ah yes. the parasite will be just that. a microscopic creature that gets into the blood stream of creatures and begins to manipulate said creatures to do things that help the parasit achieve its goal procreation.

their is a recent discovery that bacteria wait and build up their numbers to a point that their is enough of them to act in a meaningful way. perhaps these parasites can do something similiar.

why this could work okay each host works and strives autonomously. they may be completely unaware they are effected. the only being is they start to act in ways that are not normal. and then a threat occurs the parasite can doits communication thing and suddenly everything that is infected begins to act in the enterest of the parasites.
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LepperGod
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Re: Animal Faction Discussion

Post by LepperGod » Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:56 pm

Yes we have a hive mind i get it. but animals are not going to work in tandem without something making them. the lion doesnt join the hyena during the hunt. the hyena shows up after the action to try and steal the kill. might makes right. if you want that go play orks. Animals will defend themselves and their young. the only animals that work together are in a pack and that does not allow for variety. We need more than just the lone aliigator to pop out and attack with its sharp teenth agaist the cutting gons of the reclaimers.

so lets say the parasite infects u and you begin to work for it (though u think u work for yourself) you move yourself and your family to a place where lile minded infividuals dwell. (Also infected) you continue to live and strive. meanwhile The wild life is also becoming infected and u find food easir to come by. animals domesticable that previously never were its subtle but u think how good for me. other wild animals(infected)roam about living their normal lives. but then danger threatens and the parasite,grown fat and happy, triggers its electrical comand and suddenly the whole ecosystem moves. to stop the threat eacj in tjeir own way never knowing they are working to achieve the ends of a microscopic parasite. the parasites will send out branches to areas to spreaf thei genes and hunting parties will go out to secure new territory for expansion.
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LepperGod
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Re: Animal Faction Discussion

Post by LepperGod » Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:13 pm

i am now on a computer YAY!

...after a while (many moons and many births) the hosts begin to develop and evolve to look more science fiction-like. they may develop abilities and such that they view as completely natural but is in reality a product of the parasite playing on their genetics. the science of how can be developed later. it would be cool to see what is obviously a lion look even more violent and powerful with more deadly weapons capable of eliminating encroaching enemies.

this idea would create a viable army for a science fiction game. humans don't have to be involved at all. instead, this could happen to an ecosystem that only has animals and no humans. the parasite could infect alien organisms adding increased variety to the group.

in a non-faction with only wild animals it would not be easily or believably playable.

the only way a completely wild animal non faction would work is if it was a random occurence in the game kind of like warhammer and the random terrain chart. when a unit enters the terrain the player rolls a dice and chooses the type of terrain from a chart based on the dice roll. this could work as an environmental threat in the game but it eliminates a playable faction.
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Chief
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Re: Animal Faction Discussion

Post by Chief » Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:56 pm

This is several hundred years in the future, after several cataclysms and an apocalypse.
I'm sure we'll be able to do better than hyenas and lions for our hunters and scavengers.

While the pack mentality may be construed to be similar to other factions in other games, the hive mind is already in use by the salvagers. Gentle nudges from pack leaders and a "symbiotic revolution", so to speak, would be the best explanation for the animal faction's cooperation in my opinion.

LepperGod
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Re: Animal Faction Discussion

Post by LepperGod » Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:02 am

Okay. then their has to be a way for the "lions" or whatever they areto mentally communicate with different spevies.
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Chief
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Re: Animal Faction Discussion

Post by Chief » Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:05 am

Matt mentioned something about the virus being used a while back - I'd be curious to see what he's done with it thusfar.

LepperGod
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Re: Animal Faction Discussion

Post by LepperGod » Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:03 am

i did not vote for the queen mother poll. what i have in mind has nothing to do with one mind that controls everything. i believe a parasite removes the queen mother factor. even within a parasite colony different parasite strains can arise and grow to be a dominant force inside the colony. it is organic and wild and very creepy.
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cymruvoodoo
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Re: Animal Faction Discussion

Post by cymruvoodoo » Wed Apr 25, 2012 7:55 am

I have to admit, LepperGod, I disagree with your premises - I think that being able to play, essentially, the wilderness makes for a compelling and valuable experience for Dark Potential. I think that adding in any degree of alien parasite body-snatching infection is cliche and makes the animals entirely forgettable.

Chief, I used hyenas and lions as examples of current species which have a hunter/scavenger relationship. Nothing more.

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saltinerunner45
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Re: Animal Faction Discussion

Post by saltinerunner45 » Wed Apr 25, 2012 8:21 am

i actually like LepperGod's idea, although to be honest i didnt until you finished your post. only thing i would like to add, is that short of a means of communication, a virus has the ability to manipulate genes in the same way you just described. why not make it the virus that killed off humans?

as far as i know, we havent nailed down what the virus actually does (if we have please ignore this paragraph). what if it didnt cause humans to be sterile, but to produce offspring that were incapable of survival. think that dude from 300 but worse. this would cause the population to drop in a short time when combined with the "upgraded" animals as well as x'lanthos, scavengers, "bandits" etc.

back to the virus:
viruses work by infecting your cells, using your cells to replicate themselves. during this replication, it is not uncommon for DNA to be shared. if this virus is an "alien species" (TECHNICALLY viruses are not living things) then it could have picked up DNA from thousands of planets before it got to earth. if it does in fact produce mutations rather than just kill people outright, those mutations in humans would be attributed to the planets somehow (atmosphere, food, water) and may escape notice until it is too late.

as a side note, perhaps the virus itself has the ability to use DP or confers it to some animals. this could allow for communication between animals, as thought boils down to electrical signals in the brain, this is something an animal could learn to control in other creatures.


EDIT:
LepperGod sorry, i was thinking earths biological classifications. perhaps instead of a virus or a parasite it is a parasitical micro-organism with the ability to act as a virus would?
saltine runner thanks you for reading this post, and is sorry for his ramblings.
"In the grim darkness of the future, there is only static grass." -Smurfyk
2000pts Tyranid

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Chief
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Re: Animal Faction Discussion

Post by Chief » Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:00 pm

cymruvoodoo wrote:I used hyenas and lions as examples of current species which have a hunter/scavenger relationship. Nothing more.
Indeed you were.
I do believe Leppar was taking it as litteral though, hence the clarification :wink;
Last edited by Chief on Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

LepperGod
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Re: Animal Faction Discussion

Post by LepperGod » Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:11 pm

saltinerunner45 wrote:I was thinking earths biological classifications. perhaps instead of a virus or a parasite it is a parasitical micro-organism with the ability to act as a virus would?
that is correct. it is a mixture between a parasite and a virus/bacteria. I listen to NPR and i know they were sort of joking but as at the end of an episode of all things considered which was about strange insects. they talked about how parasites could possibly effect the way creatures, including humans, think and act. it was an interesting radio show and very inspiring for a science fiction enthusiast.

parasites have very complicated life cycles.

one parasite lives inside of a snail. it works its way up to its antennae and makes them wave about. this attracts potential predators (a certain bird) which then eats the snail. the parasite then lays its eggs inside the birds (it can only lay its eggs inside the bird) the bird then defecates and a snail eats the bird excrement. inside of the snail (and only inside of the snail) the eggs hatch and the process begins anew.

that last paragraph was supposed to detail the complicity of viruses and life. we can come up with a viable animal faction. we have to do it smart using all of nature's little tricks of the trade to make something that is somewhat feasable, fun to play, good to look at, an an interesting story.

i think all of our ideas are viable and i think if we combine what we come up with as a team (instead of headbutting like goats :wink: then we will make the best faction in the game.
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saltinerunner45
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Re: Animal Faction Discussion

Post by saltinerunner45 » Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:16 pm

i totally agree
your story reminded me of an article i read (cant remember where, might have even been in readers digest) where their was a study done that showed a connection to winter births and psychological disorders, due to viruses and bacteria activating dormant retroviruses in your DNA.

EDIT:
i couldnt find the article, but #6 summed it up in a humorous manner and also gives other ideas/ DNA facts if anybody is interested.
http://www.cracked.com/article_19161_th ... r-dna.html
saltine runner thanks you for reading this post, and is sorry for his ramblings.
"In the grim darkness of the future, there is only static grass." -Smurfyk
2000pts Tyranid

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darzinth7
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Re: Animal Faction Discussion

Post by darzinth7 » Thu Apr 26, 2012 2:21 pm

saltinerunner45 wrote:i totally agree
your story reminded me of an article i read (cant remember where, might have even been in readers digest) where their was a study done that showed a connection to winter births and psychological disorders, due to viruses and bacteria activating dormant retroviruses in your DNA.

EDIT:
i couldnt find the article, but #6 summed it up in a humorous manner and also gives other ideas/ DNA facts if anybody is interested.
http://www.cracked.com/article_19161_th ... r-dna.html
I can't unread what I have read. Oh well. Anyway, I think this is pretty relevant to the parasitic virus DNA theory for how the Animals are different than our present day earth fauna.

Aiyen
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Re: Animal Faction Discussion

Post by Aiyen » Thu Apr 26, 2012 2:40 pm

What I gather from reading all of this is that essentially there is a fundamental disagreement on what role the animal faction should play in the game!

I still think the best idea would be to save the animal faction for last when all the other factions have been created and then look at it again. There are some definite cool mini options in an animal factions that would really add some flavor to the universe! However I think that any awesomeness will be overshadowed by possible cliche´s if they are done this early in the development process.

That being said I still believe that the animal faction should borrow something from the X´lanthos due to the fact that at least some of them will come from other planets. If they are truly unique then that would kinda undermine the whole reason for why the X´lanthos would care about the worlds to begin with.... Any race that focus heavy on bio warfare, and general bio heavy weapons armor etc... will not just let nature run its course, but try to manipulate with it and convert it etc. Hence any alien life form they would have encountered would have to be altered by that argument alone.

Long story short, the animal faction´s basic premise should (In my opinion) be one of genetically modified /manipulated creatures that have now have their own agenda.... whatever that might be. If they do not have an agenda then they are not required in the universe and will best used as a sort of auxillery unit type that can be selected by the other factions.

vanishing
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Re: Animal Faction Discussion

Post by vanishing » Thu Apr 26, 2012 4:09 pm

I like the idea of a "force of nature" style to the animals. I also agree that unless the animals have a motivation they are pointless to the scenario. I'd like to suggest a starting point to try and drive those ideas.

We know that the X'lanthos created the virus to kill humans and be harmless to themselves. We can infer that they didn't care too much about its effects on anything else. If the virus was capable of infecting other animals, that means we have three groups left on Earth: the uninfected (Reclaimers, X'lanthos, Salvagers), the immune (Corporation, Bandits), and the collaterally infected (Animals).

Infected animals show behaviors which would be unusual in their uninfected ancestors. Although they still protect their territory and predate in similar ways, they can cooperate in eerie, unnatural ways at times. They can coordinate with separate infected species to ambush, attack and defend areas. They show particular aggression towards the uninfected and immune. They also seem to more commonly (but not exclusively) engage in these new behaviors around "sacred sites". These sites are points of migration, gathering and fierce protection on the part of many separate species acting together. The sites don't seem to have any notable features (they aren't ancient Indian burial grounds, ley lines, or anything humans can identify) other than no infected animals will attack each other there and they will defend the areas from intrusion by any uninfected or immune.

A very, very few humans have been know to "go wild". They withdraw from human society and eventually disappear into a sacred site. Very occasionally they have been seen in the company of the infected animals and appear to be accepted by them, though they clearly do not control them. None of them have ever been part of any attack on the remaining humans or X'lanthos.

I think it would be best to leave some of this mysterious; nobody has really had time to do any investigation. This would leave a lot of hooks for stories.

Mechanics-wise, I think giving the animals many more commander (eerie coordination), stealth and fast units would help offset the obvious advantage the other factions have, and would fit well with a group which uses a coordinated but leaderless style.

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