6th Edition Apocalypse Conundrums

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Re: 6th Edition Apocalypse Conundrums

Post by Aegis » Fri Nov 16, 2012 8:26 pm

There is an entry. I will hunt it down when I have a chance.
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To see what I am working on, check out my Facebook page at its new address Aegisbrand Studios or just search for Leland Martel

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Re: 6th Edition Apocalypse Conundrums

Post by Marit Lage » Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:30 pm

bigoldfrog wrote: Is there a similar rule in the big rulebook stating that models cannot disembark if the transport came in from reserves, as the small book says models can disembark from transports arriving via Deep Strike?
No, they can disembark just fine. However, since they came from reserves, they still can't assault, even if they are an assault vehicle. However, models in a transport arriving by deep striking flyer cannot disembark, though this restriction does not apply to other transports that can deep strike.

Page four of the FAQ:
"Q: Do Transports with the Assault Vehicle special rule permit their
passengers to charge on the turn they arrive from Reserve? (p33)
A: No."

Page six of the FAQ:
"Q: If a Flyer arrives via Deep Strike, can embarked passengers
disembark from it on the same turn it arrives? (p80-)
A: No."

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Re: 6th Edition Apocalypse Conundrums

Post by bigoldfrog » Mon Nov 19, 2012 4:22 pm

Thanks, that clears that up.

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Re: 6th Edition Apocalypse Conundrums

Post by bigoldfrog » Mon Dec 10, 2012 5:49 pm

Was participating in an Apocalypse game this weekend, and a rules dispute abounded to which I thought the judge's officiation of 'let the dice decide' wasn't sufficient for the longer term.

What happened:

-An ally of mine had a Chaos reaver titan, which was the target of 15-20 devastators in turn 2.
-After hit rolls, armour penetration rolls had been made, six dice were to be rolled on the vehicle damage chart.
-When the dust settled, the reaver titan had one structure point, and one hull point left, in addition to two of its three primary weapons.
-There were two driver shaken and one driver stunned results beyond all the aforementioned damage.

My ally believed that he only had to make one Primary Weapon roll for each primary weapon, irrelevant of the number of Crew Shaken or Crew Stunned results scored against his reaver.
My opponents believed that my ally had to make three Primary Weapon rolls for each primary weapon, because three Driver Shaken/Stunned results were accrued.

I was of the same opinion as my enemies that game, on account that if multiple Weapon Destroyed results were accrued against the reaver titan, that a primary weapon roll would be needed for each such result.
In addendum, the Apocalypse Update .pdf says

"... In addition, because of extra shielding and powerful back-up systems,
whenever a Primary weapon is affected by a Crew Shaken, Crew Stunned
or Weapon Destroyed result, the controlling player must roll a D6. On a
result of 1-3 the Primary weapon is affected as normal, but on a 4-6 the
damage result has no effect on the Primary Weapon."

Though the above paragraph does not say 'each' Crew Shaken, Crew Stunned, it doesn't state that it takes into account a player's habit of speeding up a game by rolling groups of attacks together, instead of individually.
I could see it going either way though.

Does anyone else have incite on the conundrum?

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Re: 6th Edition Apocalypse Conundrums

Post by Marit Lage » Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:53 pm

Looking at the 6th edition apocalypse update that Forge World put out, it specifically whenever- i.e. it can suffer the result more than once. Looks like you'll have to roll for each result on the table.

"whenever a Primary weapon is affected by a Crew Shaken, Crew Stunned or Weapon Destroyed result, the controlling player must roll a D6."

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Re: 6th Edition Apocalypse Conundrums

Post by bigoldfrog » Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:13 pm

What a expedient response. Thank you Marit

I thought my opponents this weekend and myself were correct on the issue, thanks for adding your own clarification.
It seems as always the Fates knew best too, as my ally ended up rolling 3 dice for each surviving Primary Weapon.

Cheers

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Re: 6th Edition Apocalypse Conundrums

Post by bigoldfrog » Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:43 pm

I watched an Apocalypse game where a Grey Knight player utilizing the Vindicare assassin, stripped the invulnerable save from a Phantom Titan.
Is this allowable, and will this be allowable at Apocalypticon?

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Re: 6th Edition Apocalypse Conundrums

Post by miniwargaming » Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:45 pm

No it will not.

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Re: 6th Edition Apocalypse Conundrums

Post by bigoldfrog » Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:52 pm

Happyface

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Re: 6th Edition Apocalypse Conundrums

Post by crashcanuck » Thu Feb 28, 2013 2:18 am

Do D weapons still remove D3 structure points from super heavies? I saw no mention of that effect in the 6th update, was wondering if it was still in effect.

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Re: 6th Edition Apocalypse Conundrums

Post by Marit Lage » Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:57 am

If it.doesn't mention it, it's gone.
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Re: 6th Edition Apocalypse Conundrums

Post by Randolph » Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:14 am

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/P ... update.pdf

Gargantuan Creatures - Gargantuan Resistance:

"...In addition, because they are so large and powerful, if affected by any attack that would normally kill a model automatically, for example, because of a failed characteristic test or unique dice roll result, such attacks cause D3 wounds instead."

In this case a D strength weapon would kill a normal model automatically - so a D strength weapon would cause "D3 wounds" for Gargantuan creatures there is no D3 Structure points lost for superheavies.

One thing that does make me sad is that a D strength modifiers are not carried into the the next dice roll when you roll a six, "...(any modifiers that applied to the first roll do not apply to the additional roll)." This also applies to Ap1 and Ap2 weapons. So, sorry folks your melta gun shot is really effective at first but you had better roll 6's thereafter,or your stupid, traitor guardsman...grrrr...is going to get splatted by an angry Titan!!!

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Re: 6th Edition Apocalypse Conundrums

Post by Marit Lage » Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:25 am

Keep in mind that an Explodes! result removes a structure point.
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Re: 6th Edition Apocalypse Conundrums

Post by bigoldfrog » Thu Feb 28, 2013 12:50 pm

@ Crashcanuck and Randolph

D does not remove D3 structure points in 6th.

I don't think it even removes D3 wounds from a gargantuan creature because it no longer 'instantly kills' as it did in 5th, but inflicts 'Instant Death', which gargantuans are immune to with Eternal Warrior.

"In addition, because they are so large and powerful, if affected by any
attack that would normally kill a model automatically, for example,
because of a failed Characteristic test or unique dice roll result, such
attacks cause D3 wounds instead."
- Gargantuan Resistance

"If a Destroyer weapon hits a non-vehicle model, there is no need to roll to
wound – it automatically scores a wound with the Instant Death rule."
- D weapons

"A model with this special rule is immune to the effects of Instant Death."
- Eternal Warrior

Though the Gargantuan Resistance rule states '.. any attack that would instantly kill..', Instant Death does not instantly kill Eternal Warriors.
What the rule 'gargantuan resistance' refers to are cases where the wording is such that a model is removed due to being instantly destroyed (for instance the Chaos Daemons 'Boon of Mutation', even though this is a spell and wouldn't effect the creature anyways).

Another way of looking at it: Eternal warriors are immune to instant death. Gargantuan creatures are eternal warriors. There are still instant kill/removal rules worded so that they don't inflict 'Instant Death', so the Gargantuan Resistance was created.

I know it is vague, and I wouldn't look down on anyone thinking the opposite to me.


And no, I am not bringing 'Nids to Apocalypticon.

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Re: 6th Edition Apocalypse Conundrums

Post by kernbanks » Thu Feb 28, 2013 6:42 pm

@bigoldfrog

agree with the analysis... D does D3 to Gargantuan because it doesn't insta-kill but still hits harder than a say S10 melta.
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