House Rules (need your input)

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miniwargaming
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Re: House Rules (need your input)

Post by miniwargaming » Mon Jul 08, 2013 3:49 pm

I agree, but I'll really need to see the new book before I can make any decisions.

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Re: House Rules (need your input)

Post by bigoldfrog » Mon Jul 08, 2013 7:06 pm

@ Randy - I'm in the same boat as you. GW didn't produce a datasheet for warlord or Emperor titans? Understandable, since GW hasn't and likely will never produce a model for either. Irrelevant, I'm not going to stop bringing them.

@ Xtroopers9 - I'm hoping that in the new rules, D weapons have otherwise been nerfed. I.e. The points' cost of anything that uses them has gone up, and the template sizes of D weaponry has gone down.
Apparently the Baneblade has remained the same in price, but its main weapon has been hit with the nerf bat, because blasts are now more potent against vehicles than they were in 4th/ 5th. If this is any example, I'd suspect D weaponry will receive some manner of balancing attempt (I hope..).

If GW forgot that not everyone likes their 5000 point collection removed by one Reaver in a single turn, then Apocalypse will be the House Rule magnet it's always been.

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Re: House Rules (need your input)

Post by Vache Glace » Thu Jul 11, 2013 12:31 pm

xtroopers9 wrote:Just read the latest rumor about destroyer weapons. If these are the new destroyer rules, why even bother playing, when half your army is just going be taken off turn 1 -2?

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2013/07/ ... rules.html

The new Strength D rules are crrrrrrrrrazy! It's like pseudo-4th edition vortex. Hopefully they just negate all older datasheets (and reprint new rules for them all) and then limit the amount of new Strength D weapons. Spamming 10 inch (or even 7 or 5) would just be insane in the new book. The best way to now get around it is to take more flyers :P

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Re: House Rules (need your input)

Post by Aegis » Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:13 pm

As much as the spirit of Apoc. is about blowing junk up, I must admit the rumoured rules change for D strength is worrisome. As has been mentioned, some of the fun tends to go away if you unpack, then pack up after the first turn.

Either way, we find out Saturday...
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Re: House Rules (need your input)

Post by xtroopers9 » Fri Jul 12, 2013 12:29 pm

Vache Glace wrote:
xtroopers9 wrote:Just read the latest rumor about destroyer weapons. If these are the new destroyer rules, why even bother playing, when half your army is just going be taken off turn 1 -2?

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2013/07/ ... rules.html

The new Strength D rules are crrrrrrrrrazy! It's like pseudo-4th edition vortex. Hopefully they just negate all older datasheets (and reprint new rules for them all) and then limit the amount of new Strength D weapons. Spamming 10 inch (or even 7 or 5) would just be insane in the new book. The best way to now get around it is to take more flyers :P

So there were leaked photos of the apoc book in a Spanish forum, that is how destroyer weapons work. I think we are going to have to house rule that with 10 inch D weapons.

Read here, and scroll down:

http://forofreakfactory.mforos.com/1035 ... -09-julio/
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Re: House Rules (need your input)

Post by xtroopers9 » Fri Jul 12, 2013 12:37 pm

People are already house ruling that a destroyer weapon is only a destroyer hit under the hole, otherwise it is Str 10. I mean it AUTO kills vehicles on a roll of 2+, why would I even bring Monoliths?
Its just a thought.
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Re: House Rules (need your input)

Post by Argun » Fri Jul 12, 2013 1:42 pm

Here's a thought: why not house rule the D weapons to the 5th edition standards? (IF we use the new rules) Those seem better than the new rules in my opinion.

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Re: House Rules (need your input)

Post by bigoldfrog » Fri Jul 12, 2013 1:47 pm

IMHO: Though I like the 5th edition D rules, I like Xtroopers9's house rule even more. It reduces the dread D in power to the level of other superheavy/ titan weapons.

Xtrooper9: Are people ruling that the s10 part of the template hit ignores cover akin to normal Destroyer rules?

2 weeks until Apocalypticon 2013!

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Re: House Rules (need your input)

Post by Randolph » Fri Jul 12, 2013 1:59 pm

bigoldfrog wrote:IMHO: Though I like the 5th edition D rules, I like Xtroopers9's house rule even more. It reduces the dread D in power to the level of other superheavy/ titan weapons.

Xtrooper9: Are people ruling that the s10 part of the template hit ignores cover akin to normal Destroyer rules?

2 weeks until Apocalypticon 2013!
Nope - no running away from it - a destroyer weapon has always been the size of the template. The new Apoc rules reinforce that - and we have always played that way.

C'mon guys!! The only true winner in an Apocalypse game is the one who has the least amount of models remaining on the table after the dust settles. To watch your armies die gloriously in grisly explosions and the energy of planet destroying weapons should be the goal of the game!!
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Re: House Rules (need your input)

Post by xtroopers9 » Fri Jul 12, 2013 2:07 pm

bigoldfrog wrote:IMHO: Though I like the 5th edition D rules, I like Xtroopers9's house rule even more. It reduces the dread D in power to the level of other superheavy/ titan weapons.

Xtrooper9: Are people ruling that the s10 part of the template hit ignores cover akin to normal Destroyer rules?

2 weeks until Apocalypticon 2013!
That would be something we would have to determine. Where did you read that it ignores cover? It does say it ignores any saving throw, and cover isn't classified in the BRB as a saving throw. So from that I believe you would still get cover saves, and determine cover from the shooting model. Most of what people are saying is just so you don't lose hundreds of points to s single 10 inch blast that you have almost NO chance of surviving.

@Randolph Im all for the spirit of apocalypse but no way am I just gonna let a 10 inch blast instantly kill thousands of points of monoliths and other troops from potentially one shot. And your going to have like what 8 10 inch blasts? I don't have any destroyer blast weapons in my Necron army. This is also why there aren't warlord rules in the book, bcs it would appear that because they know that destroyer weapons can now do that, they wouldn't let anything have that big of a blast and that much power.
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Re: House Rules (need your input)

Post by miniwargaming » Fri Jul 12, 2013 2:32 pm

I can say with confidence that we will NOT be using the new Apocalypse rules, although we will allow any new datasheets and formations.

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Re: House Rules (need your input)

Post by xtroopers9 » Fri Jul 12, 2013 2:45 pm

miniwargaming wrote:I can say with confidence that we will NOT be using the new Apocalypse rules, although we will allow any new datasheets and formations.
Sounds good, although how are we handling Structure points versus Hullpoints? Because the new super heavies have hull points and a different damage table.
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Re: House Rules (need your input)

Post by Randolph » Fri Jul 12, 2013 2:59 pm

xtroopers9 wrote:
@Randolph Im all for the spirit of apocalypse but no way am I just gonna let a 10 inch blast instantly kill thousands of points of monoliths and other troops from potentially one shot. And your going to have like what 8 10 inch blasts? I don't have any destroyer blast weapons in my Necron army. This is also why there aren't warlord rules in the book, bcs it would appear that because they know that destroyer weapons can now do that, they wouldn't let anything have that big of a blast and that much power.
Matt has stated that we are not using the new rules for Apocalypse, just the formations. So none of the crazy rolls to determine the size of the blast between 5-15". In truth, with the old rule set, I can only produce 3 ten-inch blasts per turn with my Warlord and Emperor titan combined. The rest of the blasts range from 7 inches to 5 inches. Lots and lots of 5 inch blasts. The new rules state instant explodes on a 2+, the old rules mean instant penetrating hits (for everything under the template) and then rolling to determine the results. So your monoliths will be happy and safe for at least 3 rounds cause I can't roll an explodes result to save my life!

That said...there is no guaranteeing that you will be across the table from me, or on the two adjoining tables, unless you pay Matt lots of bribe money :lol:


Oh - and I have lots of things in my list that are worse than Titans. :shock:
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Re: House Rules (need your input)

Post by miniwargaming » Fri Jul 12, 2013 3:08 pm

xtroopers9 wrote:Sounds good, although how are we handling Structure points versus Hullpoints? Because the new super heavies have hull points and a different damage table.
We'll use the 5th edition vehicle rules for Super Heavies, so Structure Points won't equate to Hull Points.

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Re: House Rules (need your input)

Post by bigoldfrog » Fri Jul 12, 2013 3:15 pm

@ Randy - My bad. I was postulating for non-Apocalypticon Apocalypse games. For Apocalypticon... well, when I blanket your army with D explosions emanating from your own titans... *cackles*

@ Xtroopers9 - In 5th edition rules, D weapons do not allow cover saves. That is what I was referring to.

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