PreGame

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Marit Lage
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Re: PreGame

Post by Marit Lage » Wed Jul 24, 2013 10:06 pm

Why is prescience such a big deal, anyway? I don't see the issue.
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Tyranid96
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Re: PreGame

Post by Tyranid96 » Wed Jul 24, 2013 10:47 pm

What If i put a librarian in every squad so rerolling powerfists, thunderhammers, LC, hits it all adds up especially if you have many psykers. Im perfectly okay with it except if i'm against daemons as they have like a bajillion psykers
Blood Angels: Angels Sanguine 10,000pts +
Tyranids: Hive Fleet Andromedous- 3.5k+
Orks: 2500 pts
Grey Knights: 1750+
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Marit Lage
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Re: PreGame

Post by Marit Lage » Wed Jul 24, 2013 11:11 pm

By taking that many psykers, you're taking away from the rest of your army. That adds up quickly too.
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Re: PreGame

Post by bigoldfrog » Thu Jul 25, 2013 12:44 am

I can see why a force with maxed out special weapons, all re-rolling hits, would be of concern to many.

Personally, I don't care if I faced such a force. Multi D weapon behemoths are a far greater threat to what I can bring to the table, and in an event like Apocalypticon I don't even begrudge that. My army exploding is a good thing, a fun thing.

Daemons do have a lot of psykers, so do Grey Knights, so do Nids, so do Eldar, so did my Fallen Blood Angel force last year. Of all the various psykers daemons can field, only Tzeench daemons have access to Divination, and only bigger Tzeench daemons at that. Even if daemons weren't able to choose their own spells, Tzeench daemons could still always take Prescience.

With super heavies removing an area of the board roughly 21" in diameter each time they explode, and with the proclivity of D weaponry, redonculous other ballistic nastiness, I truly don't think any army, no matter how psyker laden, choosing their spells will effect the game in an overtly impactful sense. Mine certainly won't; I have 12 psykers not including horrors. This out of over 10k of daemons.
Losing 10 minutes a player turn to checking which larger daemon has what abilities and spells, is far worse imo.

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Re: PreGame

Post by crashcanuck » Thu Jul 25, 2013 1:01 am

Personally I think the best idea would be to allow players to do all those rolls beforehand and I would recommend players that will need to keep track of these things bring blank cards to write on to keep track.

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Re: PreGame

Post by bigoldfrog » Thu Jul 25, 2013 1:30 am

@ Crashcanuck - It's a good idea, as was the post-it note idea put forth earlier. If MWG decided that everything is randomised as per normal 40k, then that's likely what I and other players in my situation will do.

@ whomever

Such note taking won't alleviate the problem of time. A bloodthirster bloodbath with 8 different bloodthirsters, or 15 different daemonic infantry units with different abilities for each unit champion, will take a massive toll on the clock for deciding what to do with them. Daemonic abilities greatly vary in what they offer the bearer. In the case of the Bloodbath, each bloodthirster would need to be marked with a dice to show which powers it has, since they're likely identical in appearance.
Notes attached to the board will fall out of place as flying psykers/ daemons move about, and these same notes will at times also require a description of the bearer as most players will have multiple of the same psyker or daemon. 'Librarian with three patches of grass on base has Terrify and Hallucinate.'
In previous years, time was still crunched for many players, probably most players in the early turns, and that's without the current assault-overwatch and influx of psykers and varying psyker powers (in addition to armies generally being bigger this year).


Conversely, other than to mimic regular 40k, there isn't a great point to randomising powers/ abilities.

Making things 'fair' is moot.

Apocalypse isn't a balanced, fair battlefield. Look to the vastly differentiating game effecting power between two identically priced warhound titans; one with turbo laser destroyers, the other with the standard loadout of a vulcan mega bolter, and a plasma blastgun. Or the differences in power between a squiggoth and a baneblade, a scythed heirodule and a stompa; despite similar prices, the differences aren't small.
Up until this year Imperium could ally with all other Imperium factions. Xenos could only ally between CSM and Daemons.
CSM, Space Marines (and their variants) and Imperial Guard have a crazy number of super heavies and formations. All other factions do not. Some of the xenos races have barely any at all (Dark Eldar, Necrons).

Allowing the choice of spells and abilities would not make things unfair, by any discernible degree.

Psykers having a slight amount more impact, isn't nearly as 'unbalancing' as any of the three above effects. It isn't a bad thing either; bringing more devastation to the battle without eating up the clock.
Daemons don't have access to the nastier super heavies, and no longer have eternal warrior (and daemons seem to be the source of consternation at present; why I bring them up). They benefiting more than most other armies isn't going to send a given table's battle awry.

As Marit Lage pointed out, if a person goes guns ablazin' with a huge number of psykers, they'll be taking on 5k (or whatever) more enemy. Further, it's more dice rolling for the controlling player, something that in itself snacks on the clock.

crashcanuck
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Re: PreGame

Post by crashcanuck » Thu Jul 25, 2013 2:37 am

What could be done for daemons is you do one roll for each daemon of the same type, so all Heralds of Khorne are rolled together on one set of rolls, etc

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Marit Lage
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Re: PreGame

Post by Marit Lage » Thu Jul 25, 2013 3:47 am

Or no random rolls at all. Ever try to work with several thousand points of daemons before? It got so bad for me I no longer take Princes or generic greater daemons. I couldn't imagine what it would be like for seven or eight sets of greater rewards and/or psychic powers.
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miniwargaming
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Re: PreGame

Post by miniwargaming » Thu Jul 25, 2013 7:01 am

Let's say that you can choose your powers, gifts, and whatever else you roll randomly for normally.

However, you still must follow all the rules of what powers you can take.

Either way, with that many psychers you will actually be at a disadvantage, as turns are timed and you won't have time to even use most of the powers.

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Re: PreGame

Post by kernbanks » Thu Jul 25, 2013 7:35 am

hell... we could prossibly use an honor system... all my Dark Angel libi's (6 now) will be in a psychic choir anyway and dropping vortex's like they are pimps in a club making it rain. The fact they will all have Prescience and one with a mind worm ;) means very little.

as for army lists? what do we need to bring? Just data sheets? I have lists but at 30,000 points they are kinda long and unwieldy.
~Kernbanks

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Tyranid96
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Re: PreGame

Post by Tyranid96 » Thu Jul 25, 2013 8:08 am

I'm curious what is a psychic choir?
Blood Angels: Angels Sanguine 10,000pts +
Tyranids: Hive Fleet Andromedous- 3.5k+
Orks: 2500 pts
Grey Knights: 1750+
IG: 1500+


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Legion: 70
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Re: PreGame

Post by jj3 » Thu Jul 25, 2013 8:47 am

kernbanks wrote: as for army lists? what do we need to bring? Just data sheets? I have lists but at 30,000 points they are kinda long and unwieldy.
I've divided up my army list into sublists, major formations have all their datasheets (if AB does't print out all the details), and attached the formation data sheet all stapled into a pack.

It's an experiement, but I think it should work out, I also grabbed sets of poker chips to use for markerlights, "Unit has shot" and to mark negative effects.

The faster you can get to the information you need, the less time it takes overall, and constantly lookng up stuff in a codex eats time like crazy!

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Re: PreGame

Post by Tyranid96 » Thu Jul 25, 2013 8:52 am

I am going to be post it noting all needed pages in all codicies for fast refernce
Blood Angels: Angels Sanguine 10,000pts +
Tyranids: Hive Fleet Andromedous- 3.5k+
Orks: 2500 pts
Grey Knights: 1750+
IG: 1500+


Cygnar:224
Legion: 70
Retribution: 75

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miniwargaming
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Re: PreGame

Post by miniwargaming » Thu Jul 25, 2013 10:59 am

You need to bring datasheets for your super heavies and formations. You don't need to bring a full list, although having something to reference your stats will obviously be useful.

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