ruling on new apoc book

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mongo8089
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ruling on new apoc book

Post by mongo8089 » Sat Jul 13, 2013 3:11 pm

Hello all

Matthew can you let us know when you will be able to finish reviewing the rules?

Looking forward to rolling dice in two weeks time

Mongo -cold and fast soul drinkers

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Re: ruling on new apoc book

Post by jj3 » Sat Jul 13, 2013 3:17 pm

I've been reading through the new book, and it's pretty underwhelming.

Divine intervention, warlord special traits, missions that are pretty bland...

Already need a FAQ, page 88 mission example setup doesn't follow their own rules on Pg 89... and there's more sprinkled all over the place.

No more scatter dice and string to divide off the table randomly, it's pretty much cut/paste from 40k missions but with bigger names

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Vache Glace
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Re: ruling on new apoc book

Post by Vache Glace » Sat Jul 13, 2013 4:18 pm

Just read though it. Did anyone find anything saying that all older datasheets are now rendered unusable? Just wondering.

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Re: ruling on new apoc book

Post by jj3 » Sat Jul 13, 2013 4:34 pm

There was reference to older super heavy datasheets in previous books that had structure points, and to replace them with *3 hull points instead

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Re: ruling on new apoc book

Post by miniwargaming » Sat Jul 13, 2013 4:55 pm

We will not be using the new book. However, you can use any new datasheets and formations.

Next year we will use the new rules.

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Re: ruling on new apoc book

Post by jae4x4 » Sat Jul 13, 2013 5:38 pm

I think not using the new rules is a mistake. I just picked up the book and learnt all the new rules in less than 1 hour. Playing this Apocalypse game with 5th edition Apocalypse rules and 6th 40K rules does not work. The rules I would suggest adopting for this game would be:

- Super Heavys Only use Hull Points.
- Super Heavys do not get shaken, stunned, immobile, or weapon destroyed.
- The Super Heavy Explosion Chart.
- The New Strength D Chart.

They will make the game run alot faster, smother and way more fun! Just my two cents!

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Re: ruling on new apoc book

Post by Argun » Sat Jul 13, 2013 6:31 pm

Personally, I'd have to disagree with you jae4x4. By now, we all know the 6th Ed. rules, and can generally do something about it when the old and new don't exactly mesh together.
The hull points on superheavies I can agree with since all vehicles use them now.
Besides, wouldn't everyone want to play against eachother when we've got at least several months to read the new rules under our belts than to have confusion reign at a big important event two weeks from now when most of us are still working on getting our armies prepped for Apocalypicon?

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Re: ruling on new apoc book

Post by xtroopers9 » Sat Jul 13, 2013 8:24 pm

I'm with Jae on this one.

Me and some friends just played a 13k per side game and did the Final Assault game. The new rules are very easy to learn, especially since we wouldn't be using assets, divine intervention, finest hour, or unnatural disasters at Apocalypticon, those were the "hardest" to remember and keep looking up. Our group (6 of us) immediately decided to nerf the D weapons. For the big blast (10" - 15") we decided the middle 5" would be destroyer, the rest str 10 ap1, and for the hellstorm template, the normal flamer template would be D, the rest being same as above. Overall I like the missions, still looking at the pictures in the book. The new formations are awesome.
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Re: ruling on new apoc book

Post by Knightfall02 » Sat Jul 13, 2013 8:34 pm

yeah I think the new rules shouldn't take too long to learn. aside from finest hour and other things which we can ignore most of the rules just change how super heavies and D weapons work. the change from structure to hull points really makes the game go faster. Me and my friends played an Apocalypse test game today. IMHO, its a lot easier to just mark off hull points then keep track of which weapons cant shoot and such.
Now I started playing in October so i don't have a book for the old Apocalypse. Do I have to try and find one or would it be ok to write down or photo copy the old titan stats and tables? the new rules for titans are the same just will x3 hull points.
After my game today, the new D weapons seem to work well/ most of the are "just" a 5" blast so at most your are getting 3 tanks. I know its up the Matt, but i think just changing some of the rules for super heavies and D weapons would make the game run faster. Also I assume you are allowing the new super heavies, which use only hull points, so I would think they would be killed a lot faster than other super heavies. We could just divide their hull points by 3 and thats how many structure points they get. Just some thoughts
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Re: ruling on new apoc book

Post by jj3 » Sat Jul 13, 2013 9:47 pm

There isn't that much that shoots 10"-D in the book. The 15" isn't D over the 5", so I see no need to "nerf" the new D rules at all. D is supposed to destroy things.

I can easily see a house ruling for a defense laser to a 5" template at most, but for the points it really should be just S10 AP2 and not a D. It's completely OP right now using 5th rules versus it's points. Or just make it use the Aquila rules to keep things easy.

The whole warlord/divine/ect stuff would be very confusing and time consuming, but I could see using the new super heavy/D rules as it seems to streamline things overall.

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Re: ruling on new apoc book

Post by Randolph » Sat Jul 13, 2013 11:18 pm

Divine intervention and finest hour and Primarch special rules are interesting but add a lot of complication. The Old Apocalypse rules were designed for 4th edition. The reload was designed for 5th. These new rules are very streamlined and answer all of the questions we used to have, i.e. what happens to an embarked unit in a super heavy when it blows.
What happens to Necron Reanimation protocols when hit by Vortex Missiles.
Ramming and tank shocking with Superheavies.

These kind of questions.

I'll bow to whatever Matt decides but I have had the book for 12 hours now and I'm very confident in knowing the rules and tables. Come the Apocalypse I will have these rules engrained!
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Re: ruling on new apoc book

Post by Aegis » Sat Jul 13, 2013 11:21 pm

I am in the same boat as others, in that it does not seem like too much was changed in this update, short of clearing up some concerns.

The stuff that is really new is stuff we likely would not be using, even next year.

But, like the others, I will go with what Matt and company decide on.
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Re: ruling on new apoc book

Post by bigoldfrog » Sun Jul 14, 2013 12:13 am

@ jj3 My precious'! Why for you want to hurt my precious'!?

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Re: ruling on new apoc book

Post by Tyranid96 » Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:41 pm

Only thing is the multitude of people who have not had a chance to pick up the book and still wont give it a while to learn. This same thign happened last year when 6th came out, just not enough time for the majority.
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Re: ruling on new apoc book

Post by xtroopers9 » Sun Jul 14, 2013 5:30 pm

I'm happy that haywire works against super heavies now. I looked through the Apoc book specifically for that and only thing I could find is that there armor values can't be reduced (Invincible Behemoth rule). Nothing about haywire not affecting them.
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