Problems with a Cheater

Discuss all you want about the Warhammer game that started it all...
Post Reply
User avatar
WikdGit
MiniWarGaming Beginner
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2011 4:04 pm
Location: Upper Peninsula, Michigan

Problems with a Cheater

Post by WikdGit » Thu Mar 29, 2012 3:39 pm

I've been enjoying Warhammer for a year now, but I have been getting pretty frustrated as of late. A really good friend of mine, who also plays fantasy, is known throughout our small town gaming community as a cheater. Up until recently I only received the accusations of my friend that he was an uneducated gamer, not a cheater. Then, on one of our gaming nights my eyes deceived me; his hands hovered over the dice, masking his true agenda to toy with the dice using his fingers to reveal 5's and 6's on all 27 dice. I took the loss, but was well aware of the atrosity that took place. Game night after game night, the rumours and the deceiving visions began to grow of our fellow gamer turned cheater.

Now I'm sure you are all thinking just tell him off, there is plenty of gamers out there. However, that isn't the option in our small town, due to only having 4-5 gamers available on game night...On a good day.

I'm in a real dillema here. I need to say something, but I have to due it so I don't lose a gamer, and more importantly a friend. Please I could use some help.
Orc & Gobbos +3500pts
Necrons +5000pts

User avatar
BewareOfTom
Epic MiniWarGaming Poster, 'nuff said
Posts: 7753
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2009 4:27 pm
Ribbons Earned: Completed a Painting Deathmatch Side Challenge Entry
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: Problems with a Cheater

Post by BewareOfTom » Thu Mar 29, 2012 3:42 pm

well maybe get all the other gamers there and have some sort of intervention, like if you all band together and tell him to clean up his act of GTFO...

and yes, you should tell him off, personally I'd rather not play at all then play against a cheater, even if he was my brother or even dad... not something I like to allow
I have half a mind to kill you, and the other half agrees

"(Lebianism) is rather inefficient... there appear to be interface problems"
- Engelbart Kappa


Kidnapping? I call it surprise adoption!

User avatar
Todda
Epic MiniWarGaming Poster, 'nuff said
Posts: 7706
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 9:25 pm

Re: Problems with a Cheater

Post by Todda » Thu Mar 29, 2012 11:28 pm

There are a few options...

Have a third person sit in to 'watch' the game.

Say you want to do a video blog of the game on YouTube and record it... even try the Beat Mat Bat-rep style.

Another option are dice that are easier to see. We had some players using smaller hard to see colors like white dots on blue and white marbled dice. Well we got a new dice catalog in from Chessex Dice at the store and found we could get a bock of 12 16mm dice for under $4 (I got 3 boxes of Red with white dots... 25604), so we got people all worked up about these dice and had the store order the colors we wanted. Now most of the players use dice you can easily see across the table. Stay away from the clear, marbled, speckled... and the small ones. They roll good and look great and if you do record the games they are VERY easy to see.

http://chessex.com/Dice/Opaque%20Dice/opaquemainpg.htm

Make a dice plate... A wooden box with a short 1" lip. Even put a v-trough along opposite edges that are numbered so you can count out dice easy. You just drop them in to the trough and slide them together on one side and look at the numbered marks. Just say it was a cool idea you thought up that would save people time and the hassle of cocked dice and such. Even buy 2 sets of dice to use with it and let him pick the color. 24 16mm dice makes for just over a 15" trough. Stain it and put some felt in the bottom if you want.
I made the move to professionally painting 3 years ago. I paint a good mix between speed and quality. This keeps prices low, like a typical 2K 40k army is under $500.

My painting services:https://www.facebook.com/toddabbottpainting

User avatar
SweetSorrow
MiniWarGaming Grand Marshall
Posts: 4244
Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2011 9:46 pm
Ribbons Earned: Has Completed 5 Painting PledgesHas Completed 10 Painting PledgesHas Completed 25 Painting PledgesWon a Painting Deathmatch Side ChallengeCompleted a Painting Deathmatch Side Challenge Entry
Location: Cincinnati
Contact:

Re: Problems with a Cheater

Post by SweetSorrow » Fri Mar 30, 2012 12:26 am

Todda i hope your response seems like you put more time into than you actually did. Anyway besides siding with Tom i think Todda has the supreme ruler option. :mrgreen:
The Stars Await, Let us now wander together.

Well then, this is rather entertaining
Chaos Marines - 5,000
IIIIIIIIII

User avatar
Fighting Gopher
MiniWarGaming Crazed Zealot
Posts: 686
Joined: Sun May 10, 2009 1:11 pm
Location: Welland, ON
Contact:

Re: Problems with a Cheater

Post by Fighting Gopher » Fri Mar 30, 2012 12:47 am

Todda has a good way of dealing with it. Doing it in a way you don't accuse, but you're all on the same playing field. Dice should always be in the middle of the board and flipping shouldn't occur.
Warhammer 40K - 41,000 points
Warhammer Fantasy - 27000 wounds (I'm guessing)
Flames of War - 6000 points
Warmachine Cryx - 100 points
Hordes Circle - 240 points

User avatar
Arnathos
MiniWarGaming Grand Marshall
Posts: 4679
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2011 1:08 pm
Ribbons Earned: Has Completed 5 Painting PledgesHas Completed 10 Painting PledgesHas Completed 25 Painting PledgesHas Completed 50 Painting PledgesHas Completed 100 Painting Pledges!Won a Painting Deathmatch Headline EventTook part in a Painting Deathmatch Headline EventWon a Painting Deathmatch Side ChallengeCompleted a Painting Deathmatch Side Challenge EntryPlaced First with a 'Mini of the Month' EntryCompleted a 'Mini of the Month' Entry
Location: Oulu, Finland.

Re: Problems with a Cheater

Post by Arnathos » Fri Mar 30, 2012 1:21 am

That sounds pretty extreme, used to be that one of my old friends used to abuse rules and stuff when I started off fantasy, taking advantage of my not knowing the rules. We did catch hin with his pants down when my other more experienced friends watched over a game.

He was not a very good player and in a fair game I used to table him even as a newbie. But he was still more ignorant than anything.

I've never played with someone with the finger skills to mess with the dice. Though I did have a friend who could reliably roll a 6 on a single die by rolling it off his hand a certain way, but he didn't play warhammer :P
Time will tell... Sooner or later... Time will tell.
WH40k:
IG 5000pts[95% Painted]
Word Bearers 10000pts[89% Painted]
WHFB:
Empire 5000pts[95% Painted]

FYI, I'm Dutch, not Finnish, I just live there.

User avatar
Zero
Epic MiniWarGaming Poster, 'nuff said
Posts: 7740
Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2009 4:41 am
Location: Wollongong, Australia

Re: Problems with a Cheater

Post by Zero » Fri Mar 30, 2012 5:50 am

Arnathos wrote:Though I did have a friend who could reliably roll a 6 on a single die by rolling it off his hand a certain way, but he didn't play warhammer :P
I can kind of do that, actually. Doesn't work all the time, but most of the time. I don't do it in games, of course, but I can still do it :P

Make him roll them where everyone can see. In an open space or something on your board. Where I am, it's kind of just common courtesy to do so and everyone in the store does it, unless there's literally no way to do it in front of the other person and you have to do it behind a building on your side of the table, but even then, people are usually honest enough as to lift up the building so the other player can see the roll, unless there's stuff in that building. Players also keep their hands away from the dice after they've been rolled until it's time to pick them up. I even feel bad about not rolling infront of the other person.

Maybe just make that common practice in your store. Kind of like how you wear a button-up shirt with a collar to golf; it's just something you do.
What matters creative endless toil
When, at a snatch, oblivion ends the coil?

My awesome blog of awesomeness.

User avatar
Poice
MiniWarGaming Zealot
Posts: 489
Joined: Sat Apr 11, 2009 2:27 pm
Location: Near Khornate

Re: Problems with a Cheater

Post by Poice » Fri Mar 30, 2012 7:30 am

My problem is the idea that Warhammer is a game of wins and losses. I dont care if I lose. The bloodier that battle the better!! :twisted:

I think Todda has the best solution. Get some bigger dice. A third set of eyes always helps.

Just gotta help people with that. It even says it in each rulebook, its not about who wins or who loses. Its about having the most fun slaughtering each other.
Fly safe

User avatar
Fighting Gopher
MiniWarGaming Crazed Zealot
Posts: 686
Joined: Sun May 10, 2009 1:11 pm
Location: Welland, ON
Contact:

Re: Problems with a Cheater

Post by Fighting Gopher » Fri Mar 30, 2012 9:38 am

Well first off, don't feel bad for having to say something or do something to fix the problem. It's not your fault, your friend has put you into this position and you have a right to have fun as well. Having someone cheating on you isn't fun.

Tell him flat out, roll the dice in the middle of the board please.

I was playing a game against someone I knew as well once and they were doing the same thing. I flat out called them out on it. They're great outside of the game, but when playing it, I hate playing them and it isn't fun.
Warhammer 40K - 41,000 points
Warhammer Fantasy - 27000 wounds (I'm guessing)
Flames of War - 6000 points
Warmachine Cryx - 100 points
Hordes Circle - 240 points

User avatar
Todda
Epic MiniWarGaming Poster, 'nuff said
Posts: 7706
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 9:25 pm

Re: Problems with a Cheater

Post by Todda » Fri Mar 30, 2012 11:32 pm

We have a few in our group and they are always the ones with the dice that are hardest to read. The just roll and start picking up the dice fast and seem to get really lucky rolls. We also have a lot that I do not even look at when they roll as I know they do not cheat. If it is an important roll I actually want the other person to watch. Then again I have large red solid dice with white dots that you read across the room... I personally think the larger dice roll better... more random, and the smaller dice tend to not roll as random... and usually roll low numbers more often. I do like my larger dice though. 36 have a good feel in the hand when you roll them all.

A ways using the smaller dice for wound markers, but I just got some of the tubs of gem markers from Chessex too. 20 for something like $2.29 and they come in something like 10 colors. I got 4 colors... red, green, blue, and black (but black was back-ordered). They are great wound markers, but I also use them for my Eldar as markers for the Night Spinners for units that were hit with the web and for my Necron reanimation tokens. I also need them to mark units effected by the Regeneration from my Mortis Engine as you roll the distance and mark the units before you move. I got the store to stock these and people are using them for War Machines and Hordes. I'm still trying to get them to stock rare earth magnets... Oh, but the main reason I got the markers instead of dice is I kept picking up the dice. The wound markers work much better... and just look better.

We had a few iffy dice handlers in some RPG (paper and pencil type) back in the days and a friend of mine used to always have people use his Dragon Bone... It was an electronic dice thing that could be set for 1D6, 2D6, 3D6, and all the regular D&D dice as well as percentile dice. He would hold it out so you could press the big button. You would think people would make a big deal, but everybody got used to it really quick.
I made the move to professionally painting 3 years ago. I paint a good mix between speed and quality. This keeps prices low, like a typical 2K 40k army is under $500.

My painting services:https://www.facebook.com/toddabbottpainting

WarlordEXE
Now we're getting somewhere...
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2011 7:46 am

Re: Problems with a Cheater

Post by WarlordEXE » Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:48 pm

problem with telling him off is that he's part of a campaign right now that really needs everyone showing up (few in number to begin with). he also seems really touchy so its like stepping on ice trying to make a point of these things without him deciding to just quit or leave. oh, and the gaming area is a tad small so its hard to have a 'third set of eyes' watching him close enough to see his dice rolls.
1750 pts Black Templar (2nd Damocles Crusade)
2000'ish Dark Eldar (Sky Serpents/ Cult of the Weeping Throat/ Prophets of Flesh)
1000'ish Dark Elves (The Ever Fleeing Pasties of Har Ganeth)

User avatar
Azeebo
Epic MiniWarGaming Poster, 'nuff said
Posts: 9416
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2009 4:28 pm
Location: Im on your Terra sitting on your Throne

Re: Problems with a Cheater

Post by Azeebo » Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:26 pm

My thoughts are to confront him face to face, in private. If he continues, you simply dont play him.
HammerOfTheEmperor - Common users must take Azeebo in small doses, lest they get overwhelmed by his awesomeness

DrMasenkoSauce - You're the master of 40k. Everything you say in the matter is 100% correct

Rangrok1k - Azeebo...I love you

User avatar
WikdGit
MiniWarGaming Beginner
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2011 4:04 pm
Location: Upper Peninsula, Michigan

Re: Problems with a Cheater

Post by WikdGit » Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:32 pm

Thanks everyone for your replies and advice. I have decided to take it upon myself and make a dice box where every player makes their rolls, watch his movement and list making, and also made cues that if a cheater is revealed our small gaming community will refuse to play with them. It came down to not playing with him for 4 months due to his blockheaded views on the written rules, and we all decided we had enough of him. The real sad thing is that he is starting to let his shady rolling ruin a RPG game that I started, however being the GM I will continue killing his characters until he gets the picture. Seems like sweet revenge to me...
Orc & Gobbos +3500pts
Necrons +5000pts

User avatar
SonsofRuss
MiniWarGaming Zealot
Posts: 217
Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2011 7:37 pm
Location: Illinois

Re: Problems with a Cheater

Post by SonsofRuss » Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:30 pm

I myself know its hard to get along with other gamers sometimes due to lack of knowledge or cheating. I hate that crap. If you really don't know then its okay for a little bit but you better stop making the same mistakes and cheating just just crap. I would have freaked out friend or not. Like others are saying this game is for fun and to have a good time with other people that enjoy the same hobby. If they have to cheat to win then they're never your friend in the first place. I don't know if its cause I was in the Marines for 8 years and I don't do well with crappy people but you should have never had to deal with that. My old gaming group had a "friend" that always had to check every rule or had to say just cause it doesn't say you can doesn't mean I cant personality made me nuts and then I just yelled at him and everyone one else was also sick of his playing style that he now has a ton of models and no one but the local store which he has been kicked out of to game at. Sorry for being so long but this kind of stuff always pisses me off. Good luck with your other gaming buds
Look after yourself today- you still owe me two flagons from our last arm wrestling match. It would be just like you to get yourself killed to avoid paying your debts.

Space Wolves 8000+ pts

Post Reply

Return to “Warhammer Fantasy”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest