Age of Sigmar is live

Discuss all you want about the Warhammer game that started it all...
User avatar
Fighting Gopher
MiniWarGaming Crazed Zealot
Posts: 684
Joined: Sun May 10, 2009 1:11 pm
Location: Welland, ON
Contact:

Re: Age of Sigmar is live

Post by Fighting Gopher » Sat Jul 04, 2015 6:55 pm

Ruglands Orcs have a similar one. This used to be the rule back in I want to say 5th edition.

WAAAgh! drummer Models in this unit may be Waaagh! Drummers. You can add 2 to the charge rolls of a unit that includes any Waaagh! Drummers, but only if you bellow ‘Waaagh!’ when rolling the dice.
Warhammer 40K - 41,000 points
Warhammer Fantasy - 27000 wounds (I'm guessing)
Flames of War - 6000 points
Warmachine Cryx - 100 points
Hordes Circle - 240 points

User avatar
Fighting Gopher
MiniWarGaming Crazed Zealot
Posts: 684
Joined: Sun May 10, 2009 1:11 pm
Location: Welland, ON
Contact:

Re: Age of Sigmar is live

Post by Fighting Gopher » Sat Jul 04, 2015 6:59 pm

pricey333 wrote:
Fighting Gopher wrote:You could become cheese, but what is nice is the whole sudden death scenario's. Makes being cheesy a little hard. you have 33% more models than me? Well all I need to do is kill your one hero or one unit and I get a major victory. I like it, I think it may actually balance everything out and make you think, should I really summon that unit.
I agree this makes it easier but they only choose one as far as i understand:

Assassinate: the enemy player picks
a unit with the Hero, Wizard,
Priest or Monster keyword in
their army. Slay the unit that
they pick.
I choose my great unclean one, have fun

Blunt: the enemy player picks a unit
with five or more models in their army.
Slay the unit that they pick.
I choose the 40 man blob of plague bearers or 30 man blob of nurgle warriors, have fun

Endure: Have at least one model
which started the battle on the
battle field still in play at the end of the
sixth battle round.
This one would be the one that I would choose, either using a fast unit to run in circles or a rock solid block hiding somewhere. this is just me as i like a defencive style.

Seize Ground: Pick one terrain feature
in enemy territory. Have at least one
friendly model within 3" of that feature
at the end of the fourth battle round.
This seems like a good idea if your army is ridiculously quick looking at you wood elves, or any thing on horse back; sod it still going to call them cavalry.

This is hypothetical of-course, because i don't play with cheddar, just trying to play the devils advocate :D, I think that, until another idea pops up, wounds should be used, I'll certainly be suggesting it at my gaming club
I had completely misread that. Not as easy as I thought. Though endure I think could work out well for you. Just have to be sneaky. Wouldn't try this as a dwarf.
Warhammer 40K - 41,000 points
Warhammer Fantasy - 27000 wounds (I'm guessing)
Flames of War - 6000 points
Warmachine Cryx - 100 points
Hordes Circle - 240 points

User avatar
pricey333
MiniWarGaming Zealot
Posts: 414
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2010 5:12 pm
Location: The Internet

Re: Age of Sigmar is live

Post by pricey333 » Sat Jul 04, 2015 7:46 pm

Fighting Gopher wrote:Ruglands Orcs have a similar one. This used to be the rule back in I want to say 5th edition.

WAAAgh! drummer Models in this unit may be Waaagh! Drummers. You can add 2 to the charge rolls of a unit that includes any Waaagh! Drummers, but only if you bellow ‘Waaagh!’ when rolling the dice.
There is one for the cockatrice were you have a staring contest and one for wulfrik where you issue a challenge to your opponent and the have to not react at all:
: At the start of
the combat phase, Wulfrik can issue an
indelicate challenge in his foe’s tongue
if there is an enemy Hero within 3".
Issue your opponent with a challenge
of your own – you can be as mocking,
rude or insulting as you dare; if your
opponent rises to the bait and they change
expression, even so much as crack a smile
or a glimmer of shock, Wulfrik’s challenge
is successful and you can re-roll failed hit
rolls for any attacks he makes this phase
against enemy Heroes
Credo quia absurdum est- I believe it because it is absurd

Cypher, the Fallen Angel is rumored to have descended from Desmond Miles- http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Cypher

Double Heresy "BLAM"- http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Sorcerers_of_Khorne

User avatar
Fighting Gopher
MiniWarGaming Crazed Zealot
Posts: 684
Joined: Sun May 10, 2009 1:11 pm
Location: Welland, ON
Contact:

Re: Age of Sigmar is live

Post by Fighting Gopher » Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:59 pm

Well, it is official. Age of Sigmar was meant to be played while drinking!!!
Warhammer 40K - 41,000 points
Warhammer Fantasy - 27000 wounds (I'm guessing)
Flames of War - 6000 points
Warmachine Cryx - 100 points
Hordes Circle - 240 points

User avatar
Flindo
Lives, breathes, and eats MiniWarGaming
Posts: 1015
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 4:39 pm
Ribbons Earned: Completed a Painting Deathmatch Side Challenge EntryAwarded the Awesome Medal of Awesomeness!
Location: Sarnia, ON

Re: Age of Sigmar is live

Post by Flindo » Sun Jul 05, 2015 8:51 am

anyone who thinks they can justify the no point system is foolish, theres just no justifying it, the wound system you guys talked about seems like one of the more ideal things I've heard, but it still has its flaws, as a night goblin still shares the same amount of wounds as a saurus warrior.
Infinity:
Morat 1400 Points
Warmachine:
Skorne 209 Points
Gatormen 141 points
Malifaux:
Gremlins 203 Soul Stones
Relic Knights:
Noh Empire: 68 points

TheWolfman
Silver Vault Member
Posts: 38
Joined: Wed May 13, 2015 7:36 am

Re: Age of Sigmar is live

Post by TheWolfman » Sun Jul 05, 2015 10:45 am

It is probably best to go with 8th edition points with Age of Sigmar rules.

Khorne and Sigmarines being the problem...

User avatar
Paygan
Now we're getting somewhere...
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Apr 11, 2015 5:23 pm

Re: Age of Sigmar is live

Post by Paygan » Mon Jul 06, 2015 5:04 am

Flindo wrote:anyone who thinks they can justify the no point system is foolish, theres just no justifying it,
Actually it makes sense in a narrative way (which this is meant to be narrative driven). How often would an army turn up to secure a location, objective or area and find a completely equal sized and powered army up against them?... Never. If you turn up and are completely outnumbered as if you stepped into an ambush, your objectives change and the battle itself changes. You take out their leader and the force will scatter, you protect your commander and allow him to escape to rally an even bigger force or you grab your objective item and leg it or wait for reinforcements.

As for looking at it from a games design perspective (I have several years in the games industry under my belt working on pc, console and pen and paper games) then it makes sense given the direction that the game is going in, which is a narrative and campaign driven direction based on player freedom and creativity. If you start to think of this game more as a tabletop RTS/Turn based hybrid then each game becomes a mission instead of a straight up pitched battle game. Remember that war is never balanced around equal sized forces, no general; ever said "Hey that country has an equal sized force to us that's just as well equipped as us, let's invade"!

Players will come up with house rules such as the wounds count if they want a straight up force vs force equal sized fight, or they will continue to use 8th ed rules.

That's my opinion and way of thinking about it anyway

TL;DR Change the way you think about the game, it has evolved into something new and you may find the point to there being no points system.

User avatar
Kovlovsky
Epic MiniWarGaming Poster, 'nuff said
Posts: 5758
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2014 6:40 pm
Location: Québec

Re: Age of Sigmar is live

Post by Kovlovsky » Mon Jul 06, 2015 12:21 pm

Paygan wrote:
Flindo wrote:anyone who thinks they can justify the no point system is foolish, theres just no justifying it,
Actually it makes sense in a narrative way (which this is meant to be narrative driven). How often would an army turn up to secure a location, objective or area and find a completely equal sized and powered army up against them?... Never. If you turn up and are completely outnumbered as if you stepped into an ambush, your objectives change and the battle itself changes. You take out their leader and the force will scatter, you protect your commander and allow him to escape to rally an even bigger force or you grab your objective item and leg it or wait for reinforcements.

As for looking at it from a games design perspective (I have several years in the games industry under my belt working on pc, console and pen and paper games) then it makes sense given the direction that the game is going in, which is a narrative and campaign driven direction based on player freedom and creativity. If you start to think of this game more as a tabletop RTS/Turn based hybrid then each game becomes a mission instead of a straight up pitched battle game. Remember that war is never balanced around equal sized forces, no general; ever said "Hey that country has an equal sized force to us that's just as well equipped as us, let's invade"!

Players will come up with house rules such as the wounds count if they want a straight up force vs force equal sized fight, or they will continue to use 8th ed rules.

That's my opinion and way of thinking about it anyway

TL;DR Change the way you think about the game, it has evolved into something new and you may find the point to there being no points system.
Sounds right until you think about it and remember that you were never forced to use the pts systems before and that you could build a desequilibrated scenario if you wanted. In 40k, the FW Horus Heresy books are literally full of these scenarios with an encircled army fighting a win or die last fight and things like that. The reality is that now, if you want to play in an equilibrated way, you must improvise it and you have no guide lines to do that. Even before they introduced unbound in 40k or when they decided to remove all constraints in the Archaon End Times book, you could do it if your opponent was agreeing with it.

It's really a big letdown from GW and it casts a long shadow on the new system. More I read about it, more it looks like if GW decided to botch it up and release an half cooked system to salvage the IP without too much work. At first, I thought I could like it, but my friend and me are in agreement that there aren't a lot of things to do with it until GW kicks her own butt and make a balancing system for it. I won't take two months of battle testing to know how many Night Goblins 20 sauruses are worth.
Forum's NKVD Cpt. Kovlovsky

40k : 3945 points of Thousand Sons
380 pts of Tzeentch Daemons of Chaos

Thousand Sons WiP : http://www.miniwargaming.com/forum/view ... 6&t=114889

Fantasy : OnG

User avatar
Fighting Gopher
MiniWarGaming Crazed Zealot
Posts: 684
Joined: Sun May 10, 2009 1:11 pm
Location: Welland, ON
Contact:

Re: Age of Sigmar is live

Post by Fighting Gopher » Mon Jul 06, 2015 12:30 pm

Rumour has it that there is a book coming out for it in the next little bit. This is just a starter to it. This is to get you into the game then the hardcore rules come into play. Think of it like Warmachine/Hordes. The starter box sets had a 1 page back rule set, but it wasn't all the rules. You needed the book to do that. I think that's the path they are going down and it will work, as PP has proven that. Give it time and watch it grow into the game you will love. I think it's pretty good as a starter.
Warhammer 40K - 41,000 points
Warhammer Fantasy - 27000 wounds (I'm guessing)
Flames of War - 6000 points
Warmachine Cryx - 100 points
Hordes Circle - 240 points

WillyTee
Bronze Vault Member
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri May 22, 2015 2:56 am

Re: Age of Sigmar is live

Post by WillyTee » Mon Jul 06, 2015 1:39 pm

Image

TheWolfman
Silver Vault Member
Posts: 38
Joined: Wed May 13, 2015 7:36 am

Re: Age of Sigmar is live

Post by TheWolfman » Tue Jul 07, 2015 3:34 am

LOL! That sketch made me laugh. The thing is, I see A LOT of hobby shops going base to base anyways.

User avatar
Paygan
Now we're getting somewhere...
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Apr 11, 2015 5:23 pm

Re: Age of Sigmar is live

Post by Paygan » Tue Jul 07, 2015 2:57 pm

Kovlovsky wrote:
Sounds right until you think about it and remember that you were never forced to use the pts systems before and that you could build a desequilibrated scenario if you wanted. In 40k, the FW Horus Heresy books are literally full of these scenarios with an encircled army fighting a win or die last fight and things like that. The reality is that now, if you want to play in an equilibrated way, you must improvise it and you have no guide lines to do that. Even before they introduced unbound in 40k or when they decided to remove all constraints in the Archaon End Times book, you could do it if your opponent was agreeing with it.

It's really a big letdown from GW and it casts a long shadow on the new system. More I read about it, more it looks like if GW decided to botch it up and release an half cooked system to salvage the IP without too much work. At first, I thought I could like it, but my friend and me are in agreement that there aren't a lot of things to do with it until GW kicks her own butt and make a balancing system for it. I won't take two months of battle testing to know how many Night Goblins 20 sauruses are worth.
I actually disagree with it being a let down and I'll explain why. We were never promised anything but something new and that's what we've got. The rules are not botched but incomplete, it's obvious (and multiple sources have reported such) that the game as it is at release is not how it will be in a few months/ a year. There will be tournament aimed balancing rules coming out in time and each race will be getting an update, along with those new models new stats will come along too rebalancing things. The purpose of this release is to whet new players appetites and give them a way of getting into the hobby without spending hundred(s) on a rulebook, army book and small bits before they even get to buy a model.

To quote several sources who have spoken with the press guy at various gw and forgeworld open days and events already
"They are going to fully support all modes of play, and will be releasing rules to balance armies against each other. There will be narrative campaigns where your forces are picked for you for specific missions, and there will be a system for tournament players to balance lists that isn't based on model count."


As for the current state, there are many mini ways that people have figured out to have some form of balance already such as that shown in the MWG video today (Steve's High Elves vs Cullen's Skaven). Given this it's possible (purely speculation on my part) that GW are using this period of crazy gaming to see what us.. the gaming community like, dislike and what we do with the game ourselves in order to get a more appealing set of rules to please a wider spectrum of players when they do release the balancing rules. For now I'm going to enjoy it, have fun with it, play the hell out of it and enjoy the freedom I get with it to try things that would not seriously have been done before!

User avatar
Kovlovsky
Epic MiniWarGaming Poster, 'nuff said
Posts: 5758
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2014 6:40 pm
Location: Québec

Re: Age of Sigmar is live

Post by Kovlovsky » Tue Jul 07, 2015 4:13 pm

The main point of my reply is that we were already free before, you just had to be bold and take it. What I see is not freedom, but issues and holes in the roof. The freedom thing is more an excuse that anything else. BTW, I had way more options to customise my army with my old codex than these scrolls with like one weapon option or two and the option to take a drummer in my Orcs. So, I lost freedom and options for a problematic and, if I believe the feedback from people who tried the game, chaotic ruleset.

If the campaign books and the future releases don't deliver, the future of this game seems very dark indeed.
Forum's NKVD Cpt. Kovlovsky

40k : 3945 points of Thousand Sons
380 pts of Tzeentch Daemons of Chaos

Thousand Sons WiP : http://www.miniwargaming.com/forum/view ... 6&t=114889

Fantasy : OnG

User avatar
Paygan
Now we're getting somewhere...
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Apr 11, 2015 5:23 pm

Re: Age of Sigmar is live

Post by Paygan » Tue Jul 07, 2015 4:49 pm

I'm not here to start an argument or try and convince anyone, just putting my point of view across. Freedom wise there were so many 'meta' units before that armies became so stale that you could go to a tournament or your LGS and pretty much know exactly what was going to be there, there was no reason whatsoever to take anything but the usual stuff even if you preferred the look or lore behind something else, you would just gimp yourself. You had more freedom with wargear, but the army would not change playstyle based on that wargear. You had to have minimum core etc. and HAD to have certain things to get a 'legal' game in whereas now you can build a force based around an idea and not have to deviate from it. That is what I think of as freedom in a wargame. I can buy what I want, and not what I have to have, or what I have to have to be competitive.

Is this current system problem free? Far from it but it's new.. , was the last system? Far from it, this is the start of a living system now that can literally be updated by GW in an hour if they choose to by simply updating the pdf's on their website. It is chaotic yes.. but when you've been playing 20+ years like I have, all new rules releases can be just as chaotic depending on who you talk to, difference is now you spend less time trawling through 400+ pages to find an answer and can either just make a fast house rule between the two players or you can find it very quickly in the current 4 pages + warscrolls.

I think people need to remember that 8th edition was a result of development going back to the early 80's, and had got to a point where new players (those who really spend the money on the game) were far too intimidated by the game to get started. The entry requirements were way too high and far too expensive and imo stripping everything away and starting from scratch is the only real way to get something truly successful again, even if it means alienating the few to create a new crowd of the many.

Again it's all my opinion here, don't hang me people! :P

TL;DR I disagree with the freedom, freedom in a unit yes, but freedom in army build and playstyle no. GW have been at it for a long time and whilst it's chaotic and seems to lack a bit at the moment the only way to rebuild the success is to strip it all away and start from scratch.

User avatar
Kovlovsky
Epic MiniWarGaming Poster, 'nuff said
Posts: 5758
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2014 6:40 pm
Location: Québec

Re: Age of Sigmar is live

Post by Kovlovsky » Tue Jul 07, 2015 5:01 pm

The thing is, in 1983, people were probably a bit less demanding than today. The way a veteran company can release this minimalist system is just completely mind blowing to me. We were expecting something that would be well thought and deep even if it would have its problems, like all new system. I wasn't expecting that the 8th edition would be largely reconducted. No, I expected a well organised and fast skirmish system. Now, what I'm seeing is a confused game with huge balancing problems.

Now, about the rest like I said, you could all ignore the minimum core, minimum Lord and Heroes if you wanted and if you had pals who were willing to experiment. You could build a scenario where troops were leaderless and were falling back for a long time with only the elite units having survived the attrition by example. I also look like to be the only one who actually bought the Archaon book, because they completely removed all requirements in it, even the minimum core.
Forum's NKVD Cpt. Kovlovsky

40k : 3945 points of Thousand Sons
380 pts of Tzeentch Daemons of Chaos

Thousand Sons WiP : http://www.miniwargaming.com/forum/view ... 6&t=114889

Fantasy : OnG

Locked

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest