An all around 2500 Dwarf gunline army.

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halt92
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Re: An all around 2500 Dwarf gunline army.

Post by halt92 » Mon Nov 10, 2014 9:42 pm

I wouldn't say he is tailoring per se. Planning for regeneration is just a good general rule of thumb when designing an army.

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Re: An all around 2500 Dwarf gunline army.

Post by Honourblade » Mon Nov 10, 2014 9:58 pm

Oh btw @halt92, Rune of Stone is immune to the 1 of a kind rule, and yes true, but that much flaming is rarely seen in all comers list, he just gave 3 of my units immunity to his whole army, considering I only run 7 units at 3000 Points..
"Give no thought to failure, nor defeat - We are the children of Ulthuan and we shall prevail."

Current and only army: High Elves
- 6000 Points worth of models
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- 1850 of 4000 Points in progress

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halt92
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Re: An all around 2500 Dwarf gunline army.

Post by halt92 » Mon Nov 10, 2014 10:01 pm

Well I am just wrong all over this thread. >.>

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Honourblade
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Re: An all around 2500 Dwarf gunline army.

Post by Honourblade » Mon Nov 10, 2014 10:08 pm

Haha! Dont worry, you did school me on my Lore of Life thread, haha!
"Give no thought to failure, nor defeat - We are the children of Ulthuan and we shall prevail."

Current and only army: High Elves
- 6000 Points worth of models
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- 1850 of 4000 Points in progress

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Kovlovsky
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Re: An all around 2500 Dwarf gunline army.

Post by Kovlovsky » Mon Nov 10, 2014 10:12 pm

I'ze be thinkin' these stunties foight with a kunnin' Warboss an' got shtomped by a big mob of Trolls ! Got wat he deserved from Gork and Mork. Them stunties thinkin' they can smash us with fire blastas!? Pfffah ! Them runts gonna see how head smashin' is done proper ! :lol:
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Honourblade
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Re: An all around 2500 Dwarf gunline army.

Post by Honourblade » Mon Nov 10, 2014 10:13 pm

^ Bloody Gold! :D
"Give no thought to failure, nor defeat - We are the children of Ulthuan and we shall prevail."

Current and only army: High Elves
- 6000 Points worth of models
- 2000 of 6000 Points painted
- 1850 of 4000 Points in progress

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Re: An all around 2500 Dwarf gunline army.

Post by Honourblade » Mon Nov 10, 2014 10:29 pm

Actually OP, this list isnt too bad, just needs some fixing, if you wanna play proper gunline dont forget Rune of slowness, make sure you deploy your siege weapons 1 inch ahead of your blocks so you can charge back, I would recommend a different approach, but let us know how this one goes, I have a few good builds that are build around defending, and letting the guns do there toll, which have won tournaments before, but they are dependent on the temperament of the player, so yeah, let us know yeah?
"Give no thought to failure, nor defeat - We are the children of Ulthuan and we shall prevail."

Current and only army: High Elves
- 6000 Points worth of models
- 2000 of 6000 Points painted
- 1850 of 4000 Points in progress

Erikjust
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Re: An all around 2500 Dwarf gunline army.

Post by Erikjust » Fri Nov 14, 2014 8:28 pm

Damn this threat suddenly got a lot of response and good ones to (and here i´m standing without my armybook).
So please throw in suggestions on how to re-tweek the list so it becomes better.

Rune of Fire was basically to negate those blocks of units that have Regen.
As said before as soon as the Trolls and River trolls got into close combat it was more or less over and they chewed through my entire army.

So Runesmith doesn´t give Armor piercing to the weapon itself to bad, however not bad enough that I want to throw them away.
As said before there´s a lot of nasty spells out there and with our magic resistance being a joke compared to its former glory (and wouldn´t you know it the Anvil of Doom became useless too)
So I will need all the help i can get to chancel out the magic spells that do go through.

Standing on the edge of the table is basically what I intend to do, this army isn´t tailored to walk around the field of battle (though such a dwarf army could be interesting to field at some point). What my army is tailored to do is stand and shoot, so when the enemy finally DO get into close combat, they will be so weak that my guys can take them.
(Which is why I equipped my Quarrellers with great weapons, the shields was only so I would get the required points).

As for my Organ Guns I can´t really do much with them as I have already reached maximum points for the rare section (unless Runes doesn´t count towards the maximum amount of points allowed in each section.).
I could always reduce the Irondrakes or remove the trollhammer torpedo, but I am loathed to do that.
Because:
1: 20 units of Ironbreakers will be a unit that can fight back towards most of the stuff send towards it.
2: Trollhammer torpedo is great for taking down really though units.

Now explain this to me why on earth would i want to place my warmachines ahead of my blocks? (before anyone ask I run my units at two 2x10, 10 in each rank)
It seems like a sure fire way to get them charged and if there´s one thing I DON`T want is for my warmachines to get charged.
If they get charged, they will be useless for as long as they are in close combat, while Warmachines not in close combat will be able to get a round or two of against any unit that isn´t in close combat.

As for warmachine hunters well they can try and take down my warmachines, but not before i have done my damnedest to stop them with my Gyros.

Now I know some might say that i should take a Dwarf lord on Shield, well here´s the problem I don´t have the points to take him and properly equip him without having to sacrifice some other models.

And I really can´t see where i should make the cut as each unit really fills a specific role in my army.

The Master Engineers are there to make sure that my Organ Guns actually hit something (i suppose i could exchange one of the master engineers with Grimm Burloksson, but most turnaments have a thing against special charecters, in that they aren´t allowed).
The Runesmith (though not giving the original intended armour piercing to the weapons) are still useful in order to take care of magic.

And the BSB well let´s just if i´m going to stay at the table edge i don´t want my army to flee at the first sign of trouble, so he´s staying right where he is.
Also his Master Rune of Valaya is giving my army that extra dispell dice, which might be VERY useful to prevent Foot of Gork, Purple sun and other fun spells like that, you really DON`T want to get off.

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Re: An all around 2500 Dwarf gunline army.

Post by Honourblade » Sun Nov 16, 2014 9:16 pm

Damn this threat suddenly got a lot of response and good ones to (and here i´m standing without my armybook).
Haha! Sorry.. I think me and @halt92 got a bit in the moment, haha!
So please throw in suggestions on how to re-tweek the list so it becomes better.
Don't mind if I do.
Rune of Fire was basically to negate those blocks of units that have Regen.
As said before as soon as the Trolls and River trolls got into close combat it was more or less over and they chewed through my entire army.
I understand that, but you need to be carful of those Warmachine hunting Characters that have 2+ Ward Saves vs Flaming attacks, I don't know if your friend uses them though.. And yes.. Trolls have that effect.. It hurts..
So Runesmith doesn´t give Armor piercing to the weapon itself to bad, however not bad enough that I want to throw them away.
As said before there´s a lot of nasty spells out there and with our magic resistance being a joke compared to its former glory (and wouldn´t you know it the Anvil of Doom became useless too)
So I will need all the help i can get to chancel out the magic spells that do go through.
They give it too them in Combat, which is good.. But yes.. These guys are mainly to Dispel, they aren't going to be effect in most other roles until it is too late in this kind of list. (Not that it is a bad list, but it isn't built to accommodate a Runesmith.)
Standing on the edge of the table is basically what I intend to do, this army isn´t tailored to walk around the field of battle (though such a dwarf army could be interesting to field at some point). What my army is tailored to do is stand and shoot, so when the enemy finally DO get into close combat, they will be so weak that my guys can take them.
(Which is why I equipped my Quarrellers with great weapons, the shields was only so I would get the required points).
Fair enough, makes sense if you want to play proper gun line, you may want to be careful though, some armies excel at taking gun lines apart.. Just saying.. But don't worry, O&G are not one of those armies, haha! The excel at combat, and hopefuly by the time they hit you, they should be depleted enough..
As for my Organ Guns I can´t really do much with them as I have already reached maximum points for the rare section (unless Runes doesn´t count towards the maximum amount of points allowed in each section.).
I could always reduce the Irondrakes or remove the trollhammer torpedo, but I am loathed to do that.
Because:
1: 20 units of Ironbreakers will be a unit that can fight back towards most of the stuff send towards it.
2: Trollhammer torpedo is great for taking down really though units.
God no, they are a great unit if you play a lot of Trolls, they will be a good send, and, for bonus points, try and psych him into attacking them with someything with flaming attacks, you won't be able to not laugh, Trollhammer is the trolling weapon of tough guys, haha! Have fun with it! Organ guns I like, I would have put Accuracy on them, so Engineer makes it BS5! :D but yeah.. Didn't notice the points.. Sorry..
Now explain this to me why on earth would i want to place my warmachines ahead of my blocks? (before anyone ask I run my units at two 2x10, 10 in each rank)
It seems like a sure fire way to get them charged and if there´s one thing I DON`T want is for my warmachines to get charged.
If they get charged, they will be useless for as long as they are in close combat, while Warmachines not in close combat will be able to get a round or two of against any unit that isn´t in close combat.
That is what you want, if a unit is charging you, most of his stuff should be at around the same time, so once he charges your blocks the Warmachines are useless (This applies only to the Organ Guns btw). Why you put them in front of your blocks by an inch is because when he does charge you, he will hit the Organ guns, even if he hits them with a 40 man brick, only 6 models can fight in the combat, u have Engineers plus the 3 crew on yours that can fight back, and your stubborn remember, which means he can only break you if you roll badly, and his trolls count as 3 models each, so only 2 of them can fight, so yeah.. If you survive the charge with your Warmachine, you have the chance to get a flank charge (if your deployed smart) or to counter charge him, your army isn't built to hold a charge, and you will die in the attempt against any half heart assault, so you need to stay alive, or you use you Gyro for this purpose, should work well as he shouldn't have my ranged firepower to take them out, unless he is that one guy with 2 hordes of NG Shortbows..
Now I know some might say that i should take a Dwarf lord on Shield, well here´s the problem I don´t have the points to take him and properly equip him without having to sacrifice some other models.

And I really can´t see where i should make the cut as each unit really fills a specific role in my army.

The Master Engineers are there to make sure that my Organ Guns actually hit something (i suppose i could exchange one of the master engineers with Grimm Burloksson, but most turnaments have a thing against special charecters, in that they aren´t allowed).
The Runesmith (though not giving the original intended armour piercing to the weapons) are still useful in order to take care of magic.
Dwarf Lord with shield tends to work better when you build the list too him, he will last longer then all your other Lords and Heroes combine though..

Yes, each unit you have given a roll and performs it well, however, you are playing Dwarfs, and you still have large gaps, especially against O&G, as you said once his trolls hit you its all over, generally with this many points I'd have a very different composition, but each to there own.

Yes, they are great for that purpose, but and don't drop for named character, unless you are going fluffy and making an army around that character, then A, it looks shitty, B, it isn't fluffy, C, it makes no sense, and D, no tournaments will let you play them.
As for warmachine hunters well they can try and take down my warmachines, but not before i have done my damnedest to stop them with my Gyros.
Yeah.. They are going to die fast, there isn't a player in Warhammer who won't target Gyro's with there range stuff first turn to get them out of the way, that a pain in the butt.
And the BSB well let´s just if i´m going to stay at the table edge i don´t want my army to flee at the first sign of trouble, so he´s staying right where he is.
Also his Master Rune of Valaya is giving my army that extra dispell dice, which might be VERY useful to prevent Foot of Gork, Purple sun and other fun spells like that, you really DON`T want to get off.
This is true, and that rune is always useful and you should always take it, I can attempt to write up a list tonight for you as a demo list, it will be an all comers list, but it will be focus towards Lore of Life armies and Regens, up too you, just to give you an idea you know, however I still want to know how this list goes
"Give no thought to failure, nor defeat - We are the children of Ulthuan and we shall prevail."

Current and only army: High Elves
- 6000 Points worth of models
- 2000 of 6000 Points painted
- 1850 of 4000 Points in progress

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Re: An all around 2500 Dwarf gunline army.

Post by Erikjust » Sun Nov 16, 2014 11:15 pm

The list is meant to be an all around list, one that i can take an potentially win a tournament with, so yeah i would like any advice on improving it, as long as the main focus of the army still is gunline i don´t care how it´s built.
For while i could tailor an army around defeating one army, there´s not much use of that, if i end up getting creamed as soon as i face another army.

While i can see runesmiths not giving much to the army i still need them for dispelling purpose as said before when i played against an O&G army i allowed Foot of Gork to get through and it ate a huge chunk of one of my units.
I can only imagine what would happen if a REALLY magic heavy army started to lay down other nasty spells most of my units could end up being severely weakened by the end of Turn 2 or 3, so that when they get into close combat it´s all over for my side.

As for Gyrocopters being targeted i think i´m going to play hug the terrain in the first round with them, that is if there´s no chaf units or warmachine hunter units nearby.
Yes some of them will probably die if i don´t get first turn.
But i choose to look at it this way, when they are shooting at my Gyrocopters or Irondrakes, they aren´t shooting at my other units and they can get to deliver some serious pain.

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Re: An all around 2500 Dwarf gunline army.

Post by Honourblade » Mon Nov 17, 2014 6:19 am

Here you go, this is a pretty solid build for gun line, I will put short descriptions for each entry.

+++ Erikjust Dwarf List - Gunline - MiniWarGaming (2398pts) +++

++ Dwarfs - Army Book (2014-2) -V8.8.0. (Standard) (2398pts) ++

+ Heroes (418pts) +

Master Engineer (70pts)

Goes with the Organ Gun without the Rune of Accuracy, Digs in, and yeah.. That was easy..

Runesmith (91pts) [Great Weapon]
··Ancestral Heirlooms and Runes [Rune of Spellbreaking (1st rune)]

Runesmith (96pts) [Great Weapon]
··Ancestral Heirlooms and Runes [Rune of Spellbreaking (1st rune), Rune of Stone]

These guys go with the 2 bricks, just for Ld and the MR (Even if it is small) Rune of Stone is only to make them both legal.

Thane (161pts) [Great Weapon]
··Battle Standard Bearer [Master Rune of Valaya]

Goes with the 28 Strong brick, that is that.. Yeah.. anyways..

+ Core (895pts) +

Quarrellers (455pts) [Musician, Standard Bearer]
··29x Quarreller [29x Great Weapons, 29x Shields]

Quarrellers (440pts) [Musician, Standard Bearer]
··28x Quarreller [28x Great Weapons, 28x Shields]

In horde formation these guys will fire in 3 Ranks and fight in 3 Ranks, you want gun line, this gives you more power per a hit, give it a try before you ditch it, trust me, reason for no Champs is cause someone.. Wanted a Trollhammer, haha!

+ Special (460pts) +

Cannon (150pts) [3x Dwarf Crew]
··Cannon [Rune of Burning, Rune of Forging]

Obvious.

Grudge Thrower (110pts) [3x Dwarf Crew]
··Grudge Thrower [Rune of Accuracy, Rune of Burning]

You will never regret this in this load out, will ruin his Trolls, and lets you have a troll face, haha!

Gyrocopter (100pts) [Steam Gun, Vanguard]

Gyrocopter (100pts) [Steam Gun, Vanguard]

Chaff, and use them to Vanguard, and hopefully destroy the other players Vanguards or Scouts, will take a while to get use to.. So.. Sorry for that.

+ Rare (625pts) +

Irondrakes (350pts) [20x Irondrake, Musician, Standard Bearer]
··Champion [Trollhammer Torpedo]

To hold the flank, and be a *, these guys won't go anywhere without a fight, and with any luck your opponents will go for it.

Organ Gun (150pts) [3x Dwarf Crew]
··Organ Gun [Rune of Accuracy, Rune of Burning]

Organ Gun (125pts) [3x Dwarf Crew]
··Organ Gun [Rune of Burning]

Obviously obvious..

Not many changes but give it a try, should work well, I tried to keep in in tournament regulations for hard points and the like.. I don't know what scene you guys run so sorry if it is an illegal tournament list..
"Give no thought to failure, nor defeat - We are the children of Ulthuan and we shall prevail."

Current and only army: High Elves
- 6000 Points worth of models
- 2000 of 6000 Points painted
- 1850 of 4000 Points in progress

Erikjust
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Re: An all around 2500 Dwarf gunline army.

Post by Erikjust » Mon Nov 17, 2014 9:58 am

Shouldn´t be just one problem, unless i am mistaking it clearly says in the Dwarf rulebook that only half your gyrocopters can have Vanguard, so i can´t have vanguard on both of them.

Also 2400? I thought all tournaments ran with 2500 for fantasy and 2000 for W40K, but perhaps that´s just me i haven´t been in a tournament for a LONG time so i might be out of the loop.
Last edited by Erikjust on Mon Nov 17, 2014 12:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: An all around 2500 Dwarf gunline army.

Post by coldsteel » Mon Nov 17, 2014 10:36 am

Honourblade wrote: Quarrellers (455pts) [Musician, Standard Bearer]
··29x Quarreller [29x Great Weapons, 29x Shields]

Quarrellers (440pts) [Musician, Standard Bearer]
··28x Quarreller [28x Great Weapons, 28x Shields]

In horde formation these guys will fire in 3 Ranks and fight in 3 Ranks, you want gun line, this gives you more power per a hit, give it a try before you ditch it, trust me, reason for no Champs is cause someone.. Wanted a Trollhammer, haha!
OK, have to double-check the rulebook, but a Horde only gives an extra rank attacking in HTH, not shooting IIRC. Unless the Dwarves give you that extra rank...
Crucifiers (SM codex) (11881/703 PL)
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Erikjust
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Re: An all around 2500 Dwarf gunline army.

Post by Erikjust » Mon Nov 17, 2014 2:57 pm

coldsteel wrote:OK, have to double-check the rulebook, but a Horde only gives an extra rank attacking in HTH, not shooting IIRC. Unless the Dwarves give you that extra rank...
Just checked and nope i only get that extra support in CC with shooting i only get two ranks so nope.
So horde formation is basically useless in a gunline, as it doesn´t give any extra shoots.

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Re: An all around 2500 Dwarf gunline army.

Post by Honourblade » Mon Nov 17, 2014 5:29 pm

Just checked and nope i only get that extra support in CC with shooting i only get two ranks so nope.
So horde formation is basically useless in a gunline, as it doesn´t give any extra shoots.
Yeah, sorry about that, I am too used to Elves, but still lets you fire the other five in the 3rd Rank if you have Volley Fire (Don't have the Dwarf Army Book with me), however, even gun line will get into combat, so having 30 Great Weapon hits with Armour Piecing should maim what you hit, or, more correctly, what hit you, as you stated the Trolls destroy you once they hit combat.
Shouldn´t be just one problem, unless i am mistaking it clearly says in the Dwarf rulebook that only half your gyrocopters can have Vanguard, so i can´t have vanguard on both of them.

Also 2400? I thought all tournaments ran with 2500 for fantasy and 2000 for W40K, but perhaps that´s just me i haven´t been in a tournament for a LONG time so i might be out of the loop.
Yeah 2400 is the Australian and European tournament cap (Normally), with allocation for 10 Hard Points too, it's standard here, and yes I missed that, use the 20 Points to throw in the Champs in the Squads.
"Give no thought to failure, nor defeat - We are the children of Ulthuan and we shall prevail."

Current and only army: High Elves
- 6000 Points worth of models
- 2000 of 6000 Points painted
- 1850 of 4000 Points in progress

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